file Theorycrafting: What would be the effects of banning Govern

25 May 2012 15:33 #31198 by Izaak
If anything I'd say it might be worth testing how the game would play out if Govern, Enchant, Reunion Kamut and the like would start at 0 stealth instead of +1.

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25 May 2012 15:40 - 25 May 2012 15:45 #31199 by AaronC
It is appropriate from a canon perspective that Dominate be the most powerful discipline in the game. The two Methuselahs in the Chicago by Night* books used Dominate as their principal tool to manipulate events around them, followed by Auspex.

I know that the Dominate cards will never get rewritten, but I think the most appropriate way to have tempered the power of Dominate would have been to strictly enforce the limitation from the RPG that says Dominate may never be used on a lower-generation vampire (older vampire in VTES).

Examples: Deflection would only be useable on allies and vampires of the same age or younger. Redirection and Seduction would affect allies, but their superior version would only include vampires of the same age, not any vampire. With the idea, any bleed action or bleed modifier with Dominate would have the clause "if more pool is burned during this action than the number of this vampire's capacity, ignore the difference".

*(In case you haven't read one of the Chicago by Night books, it's like a game of VTES put into a narrative form for an RPG. Two Methuselahs, Helena and Menele, are in a jyahd against each other, each controlling other influential vampires using Dominate.)
Last edit: 25 May 2012 15:45 by AaronC.

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25 May 2012 20:18 #31211 by Juggernaut1981
IMHO, if we are picking a :dom: card to get banned, it would be Deflection. I can't really think of another :dom: card that deserves to either edited harshly or turned into recycled paper more.

People graft or crypt-select secondary vampires specifically to access that card. If that isn't a sign its distorting the metagame (and has done for a LONG time) then I don't think anything could be considered to 'distort the metagame'.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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26 May 2012 18:23 - 26 May 2012 18:24 #31226 by KevinM
With respect to your OP, on which I don't have a comment other than to agree with what Ralf said, I think that changing Deflection's and Govern's 1 :blood: to 1 :pool: would go a LONG way to bringing these cards' power level back into line with their peers.

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
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Last edit: 26 May 2012 18:24 by KevinM.

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29 May 2012 07:06 #31332 by Ankha

So, after our weekly games in Stockholm we go drink beers and theorycraft.

This weeks topic was, What would be the effect to the game if Govern the Unaligned was banned? There would still be Scouting mission to replace it, but ousting power of dominate decks would be lessened, also early game would be hampered with slower influencing of minions and increased investments in minions, deflection would still be there but less since bleeds are less powerful.

I don't want slower games and lower ousting power, unless blood-to-pool cards (Minion Tap, Villein, Blood Doll, Vessel etc.) are also banned.
And if you ban Govern, tables will be full of vote decks because KRC will become the replacing damaging card, or Presence deck because Legal Manipulation does bleed for 3.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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29 May 2012 08:51 #31338 by johannes
I think we need to enable other things to be as good as Govern. Disabling things is bad design and makes games slower.

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