question-circle Emerald Legionnaire — First Black Chantry Nerf?

03 Apr 2019 14:48 #94356 by Ankha
There's no easy to paste tables. Maybe you should just take a screenshot of your table and post the image here.

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03 Apr 2019 15:13 #94357 by Kraus

Ankha wrote: There's no easy to paste tables. Maybe you should just take a screenshot of your table and post the image here.

Would Google sheets or docs work? They have online excel-like tools that can be shared through links.

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03 Apr 2019 17:38 #94358 by jamesatzephyr

Ankha wrote: There's no easy to paste tables.


Paste via something like: theenemy.dk/table/


Methuselah WinsCorpses
Avery4Over 9,000
Bailey3150
Courtney19
Dakota075
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha, skimflux

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03 Apr 2019 18:58 #94362 by Mewcat
@skimflux.

1) the unstated assumption seems to be that no other cards are a problem. The result might be more accurately stated as "slightly more common than other cards" assuming the whole data set looks like that.

2) I think just showing number of decks ith csrd that won tournament isn't the greatest way to get information. Need to know how often it is played and how often counterplayed and so on. If 11 guys played it and it won 11 tournaments that is telling.

3) why not look at on the qui vive? If the data points it out maybe we should consider why.

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03 Apr 2019 23:13 - 03 Apr 2019 23:19 #94365 by skimflux

Mewcat wrote: @skimflux.

1) the unstated assumption seems to be that no other cards are a problem. The result might be more accurately stated as "slightly more common than other cards" assuming the whole data set looks like that.


Fair enough, but since nobody has ever called for nerfing Ventrue Headquarters, and other very popular cards are seen as fine*, I think "slightly more common than other popular cards" is not a solid argument for nerfing EL.

2) I think just showing number of decks ith csrd that won tournament isn't the greatest way to get information. Need to know how often it is played and how often counterplayed and so on. If 11 guys played it and it won 11 tournaments that is telling.


Agreed, but it is what we have - until we can get full information on all tournament playing decks, the TWDA is the next best thing. Besides, we do have anedotal information from the tournaments we have played in - for example, there were at least a couple of EL decks in Warsaw but none of those got a tournament win, so we do know it's not winning everytime it is played.

3) why not look at on the qui vive? If the data points it out maybe we should consider why.


Because we've been down that road before - in 1998, when WWEF was nerfed. Note that WWEF got up to 78% in the TWDA in 1999, after being nerfed**. 'Wake' is a fundamental effect for the game, and therefore it in accepted that nearly every deck will use some wake effects. OTQV is the one that better fits most decks, but that does not really make it unbalanced - WWEF and FA still see significant play.

Anyway, you can get the full file here: 1drv.ms/x/s!Arz0OfxudeZ7lswskkHDwcPaM5bHsg


*personally I think the combo of Nephandus and Antonio d'Erlette is too strong and lacks effective counters, but it seems this is not a common opinion

** I'll admit the stats for 1999 are a bit sketchy (only 23 decks), but it remained around 50% until 2007, when OTQV came along.
Last edit: 03 Apr 2019 23:19 by skimflux.

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04 Apr 2019 00:18 #94366 by Mewcat
I wouldn't say that otqv needs to be nerfed or banned but the game may benefit from doing so. I question what game need it addressed and why it was made in the first place. A wake for allies that is a boost to bounce strategies seems like a niche not needed.

Antonio nephandus is on my shit list. I hate things that take away from the minion phase like his ability. And on a 5 cap seems just dumb, with 5 cap disciplines to boot.

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