question-circle Emerald Legionnaire — First Black Chantry Nerf?

08 Oct 2018 20:32 - 08 Oct 2018 20:37 #91049 by Ke.

Emerald Legionnaire
Wraith with 2 life. 2 strength, 1 bleed.
During your unlock phase, you can remove 7 cards in your ash heap from the game to move an Emerald Legionnaire from your ash heap to the ready region with 2 life.


OK, so it's become pretty obvious this card is broken. Yes, Harbringers needed something — however this card has become the scourge of online play and this likely to filter through to real world games / tournaments.

It seems unlikely that the popularity of this card is not due to it's new shininess — it's due to the power level. So it's unlikely to go away anytime so.

Nerf seems pretty straight forward; only allow one to come back into play per turn.

Last edit: 08 Oct 2018 20:37 by Ke..

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08 Oct 2018 20:44 #91050 by mjvtes521
Though I hate to say it, since they are tons of fun, I totally agree that this card needs a nerfing. Recently played against Bill Troxel's Alcoan Legionairre deck that just uses Infernal Pursuits to fill up his ash heap quick. One rush, and a bunch of Infernal Pursuit equals 8+ legionairres on turn 3 or 4. With Anu Diptinatpa giving seven of them +1 bleed, this is clearly broken.

I would only limit it to two brought in each turn though. It's gotta happen though.

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08 Oct 2018 22:11 - 08 Oct 2018 22:12 #91051 by kschaefer
Legionnaires are powerful. With 2 life and 2 strength, it costs two blocks and 4 blood from vampires to kill them, assuming I play no cards. Even then, in most situations that ally is back in play next turn.

I've seen a lot of variants of this deck and they are all very destabilizing and mostly successful. Even if you're prepared for the sudden accumulation of minions in your predator's ready region, it's hard to handle it.

The strategies are evolving so quickly that it's now a matter to finding the fastest way to purge your library and get them into play. As mjvtes521 noted, you can see a bunch of them very early.

There are two easy nerfs, as I see it:
1. Apply a fixed limit to the number of Emerald Legionnaires that can enter play each turn. Probably 1 or 2.
2. Disallow the ability to put an Emerald Legionnaire into play, the turn they come into play. This still allows for exponential growth of Legionnaires, but 1 will not get you 8 in a single turn.
Last edit: 08 Oct 2018 22:12 by kschaefer.

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08 Oct 2018 23:03 - 08 Oct 2018 23:06 #91053 by Bloodartist
Personal opinion: legionnaires are strong enough to be a playable deck, but not overpowered. There are many ways to beat them.
- bleed them with stealth, they can do largely nothing
- vote ancilla empowerment or anarchist uprising to oust them
- block/rush/steal the first legionnaire
etc. Ive been seeing them a lot both live and online (just tonight I ousted one at the lackey league game) but I've yet to see them dominate the table. They are in my opinion much like any other VTES deck. Its popular, doesn't mean its overpowered. Its a cool new thing.

If black chantry wants to introduce a counter card to them, errata gran madre di dio, Italy to NOT have the unlock phase clause. Then legionnaires would be affected by it. Or errata the legionnaires to enter the game at master phase or something.

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If you want to go with me, refuse the light"
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Last edit: 08 Oct 2018 23:06 by Bloodartist.

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09 Oct 2018 03:32 #91055 by ReverendRevolver

Bloodartist wrote: Personal opinion: legionnaires are strong enough to be a playable deck, but not overpowered. There are many ways to beat them.
- bleed them with stealth, they can do largely nothing
- vote ancilla empowerment or anarchist uprising to oust them
- block/rush/steal the first legionnaire
etc. Ive been seeing them a lot both live and online (just tonight I ousted one at the lackey league game) but I've yet to see them dominate the table. They are in my opinion much like any other VTES deck. Its popular, doesn't mean its overpowered. Its a cool new thing.

If black chantry wants to introduce a counter card to them, errata gran madre di dio, Italy to NOT have the unlock phase clause. Then legionnaires would be affected by it. Or errata the legionnaires to enter the game at master phase or something.


I feel the meta on a nigh-global level had stagnated to the point of this archetype being able to roll through tournaments.
I've seen War Ghouls and Diary decks get stupid good placement and sweep, this deck is quite strong, but I've yet to see a situation where its impossible to beat it; Bill's deck sounds scary good. But just like 4 months ago I watched Bill using Inceptor to have a Convert burn a 10 cap turn 3.
If we didn't erratta MMPA sources to limit one extra a turn, I'm unconvinced Legionnaires need erratta. Maybe if they get broke like imbued or girls where the lack of interactivity is damaging to the game, but I dont see it that bad yet.
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09 Oct 2018 06:28 - 09 Oct 2018 06:32 #91060 by Kraus
Emerald Legionnaires are super strong. But, they are not much stronger than Week of Nightmares breed decks. They do practically the same thing - build up and swarm with Str2 Bld2.

I know it isn't a straight forward comparison, nor a fair one at that, but it is 'a' comparison. Both do similar things and require a specific answer to counter them. It still might not be enough.

But there is a counter, and a valid strategy to battle them. Walls' first and foremost priority should be blocking the first Legionnaire from hitting the table. Even if people countered them with Goratrix and a dozen different ally hate techs and someone stopped playing Legionnaire because of that, don't leave home without some ally hate.

To be fair, if anything needed nerfing (enabling a stall game, and a negative play experience), it STILL would be Ashur Tablets imo. I'm not saying it's not something we shouldn't have. The design is fine.The power level is not super op. But it's a strat that, with MMPA and Liquidation, makes a player almost unkillable PAST MINION INTERACTION.

Legionnaires can be battled with any manner of intercept, combat, ally-steal or DI. That's plenty of interaction. Ashur Tablets' only known 'counter' is Trochomancy.

I know Legionnaires are frustrating, and they could have their unlock phase trigger restricted to one instance, but they're way more fine than Ashurs. I doubt BCP will touch Ashur Tablets now though, since they already left it unscathed in the Anthology box.

If there was a need for a nerf or errata, I'd STILL wager it's Ashur (make it recycle only MINION cards, not masters; or just restrict it not to be able to fetch other Ashurs), not Legionnaire. It takes a year's time to see if they're broken. We're still half way there.

Until then, stay strong and remember to deny that first Emerald even from cross table if you know you can't deal with them in heads-up.

Krausedit\\ For the record, and before people start shouting that "there's SO MANY cards I want fixed!", I was of a mind that Villein should be 'up to 5' for years. I'm glad they did that change. Not even the fact that everyone has access to Ashurs these days (proxy or Anthology) seem to make them less of a bummer to play against. There are no other cards in the whole game that need adjustment in my opinion. No, nothing in Dominate. Nothing in Votes. Nothing in Masters. Maybe Kpist into 2 :pool: but that's not a nerf. :)

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Last edit: 09 Oct 2018 06:32 by Kraus.
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