file Kindred Society Games

09 Nov 2018 02:04 #91734 by Nac
Kindred Society Games was created by Nac
I first want to say that I love the card, that I love using the card and that blood deny is my favorite sub-archetipe to play.

That being said, current wording and rulling doesn't make any sense so I'd like to talk about it:

Is the current wording and rulling it's designed effect? Is it viable and balanced as it is?

For me I'd prefer it to have current rulling as text so i don't feel I'm lawyering the card and I'd like the very little Toreador blood-deny sub-theme to work better. I like the flavor of the card and how it fits the clan so I'd like it to leave the wallpaper area but I'm not quit sure it needs a buff: what would it happen if it were Triffle?

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09 Nov 2018 08:06 #91738 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Kindred Society Games
You should probably quote the card if you ask whether its wording is correct..

You also didn't say what is it about it that doesn't make sense?

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones

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09 Nov 2018 13:24 - 09 Nov 2018 13:41 #91742 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Kindred Society Games
Card text:

Master.
Put this card on a ready vampire. This vampire doesn't unlock as normal. During his or her controller's unlock phase, that vampire either puts Society Games on a younger locked vampire or burns 1 blood to unlock. If the vampire chooses to move Society Games but there is no locked younger vampire, Society Games is burned.

Rulings:

The last sentence is vague. Replace it with "If the vampire doesn't untap but instead moves the Society Games on, but there is no tapped younger vampire to move it to, Society Games is burned instead." [RTR 19941109]
If a vampire has two copies of Kindred Society Games played on it, each copy exerts its own effect on the vampire. Thus, untapping the vampire normally would require the vampire to burn a total of 2 blood. If the vampire does not untap normally, then both Games are moved to other vampire(s), although the vampire could burn 1 blood to prevent one of the Games from moving on. [RTR 19951017]


The original text for the last sentence was "if there is no younger tapped vampire, Society Games is burned." That first ruling from 1994 is written in a confusing way, but the current card text, which is based on this ruling, explains the effect more clearly. So the current ruling is the current card text. Are you looking at an older card (pre-Camarilla Edition)? Or do you have an issue with the effect of the card as currently worded?

As for the 1994 ruling, "on" in "moves Society Games on" should be deleted for clarity; a clause ideally should not end with a preposition, especially when a better preposition to end that clause exists ("moves Society Games along")
Last edit: 09 Nov 2018 13:41 by TwoRazorReign.

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09 Nov 2018 14:52 #91744 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Kindred Society Games
Could you clarify a bit more in exactly what part in the card text doesn't make any sense to you? Because it seems fairly clear to me what it does...

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09 Nov 2018 15:59 #91747 by Nac
Replied by Nac on topic Kindred Society Games
My bad, I did not provide the information, here it goes why:

Kindred Society Games:

The last sentence is vague. Replace it with "If the vampire doesn't untap but instead moves the Society Games on, but there is no tapped younger vampire to move it to, Society Games is burned instead." [RTR 19941109]
If a vampire has two copies of Kindred Society Games played on it, each copy exerts its own effect on the vampire. Thus, untapping the vampire normally would require the vampire to burn a total of 2 blood. If the vampire does not untap normally, then both Games are moved to other vampire(s), although the vampire could burn 1 blood to prevent one of the Games from moving on. [RTR 19951017]

As it is now, the text is very counter-intuitive, so how could we change it to work better with the card intended function?

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09 Nov 2018 16:06 - 09 Nov 2018 16:06 #91749 by Nac
Replied by Nac on topic Kindred Society Games

TwoRazorReign wrote: . Are you looking at an older card (pre-Camarilla Edition)? Or do you have an issue with the effect of the card as currently worded?


It not a matter of issue, I play the card and I'm ok about how it works. my point was trying to talk about how to improve it's wording. I know it is not a main deckbuilding tool for Toreador but I feel it's design space is worth trying.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2018 16:06 by Nac.

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