lightbulb Of Decks and Tier Lists

22 Jan 2019 13:29 - 22 Jan 2019 13:32 #93073 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists
I don't know of any 2 disciplines which do "the same thing"...

Presence and dominate both have bleed actions and bleed modifiers but :DOM: has seduction and bonding while :PRE: has majesty. And even Govern and Enchant Kindred while similar means different deck construction (I discount Scouting mission because GtU is better 99% of the time).

And it is a lot more marked when you come to types of combat...

Immortal grapple, psyche and death seeker serve the same purpose : avoiding strike: combat ends cards but playing with them or around them is really different !
:POT: deck will need to be at close range and will play his card preventively meaning that 1 combat without IG is a wasted combat against someone playing S:CE.
:CEL: deck can play both ranges with little differences and just need a psyche when the opponent plays S:CE
!salubri deck have way more means to be at the necessary range with maneuvre from both sense death and blade of bellona and death seeker is more versatile than IG or Psyche but 2 majesties in hand and you are screwed...

And then, you have :ANI: which basically can't counter S:CE cards

And I am listing only 4 type of combat and only against someone having good acces to S:CE.
Last edit: 22 Jan 2019 13:32 by Timo.

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22 Jan 2019 13:44 #93074 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists
It isn't like there are millions of effects, especially when it comes to competitive play.

Much of the individual flavor of combat is only relevant vs other combat decks. In the world of 0 to 1 combat deck per table cards are basically prevent combat ends, do damage, prevent fortitude (much lesser import) and preserve blood on self.

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22 Jan 2019 22:48 #93095 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists

Mewcat wrote: Much of the individual flavor of combat is only relevant vs other combat decks.


I strongly disagree and the example above of 4 major combat tech vs S:CE is IMO proving this :
IG need to be played preventively while Psyche and Death Seeker are reactive and :ANI: just can't avoid S:CE...

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23 Jan 2019 07:47 #93102 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists
I think we are talking across each other. Combat is by far the most complex part of the game, so complex it becomes inefficient and largely ignored when people want to win. There is a lot of 'bad Combat' that shines in combat heavy games but is extraordinarily weak otherwise. Stutter step claws of the dead for example.

So we have

Top tier (for combat) - grapple, celerity guns, samedi reaper

Because they are good at forcing the issue against non combat decks
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23 Jan 2019 09:20 #93103 by TapeTaChatte
Strange that your whole argument is very good, but then you cite 3 decks as the top tier combat that are far from being the best, especially cel guns that have had big troubles for years now for various reasons that we could develop elsewhere

A good combat deck is not the one that torporizes a minion every rush.
A good combat deck is the one that, through combats, makes GW at the end.

the top tier combat decks (if, and I suppose that's what you do, you limit combat deck to the decks that actually pack a fair number of rushes, let's say at least 10) in my opinion are weenie ani rush, weenie DBR, tupdogs.

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23 Jan 2019 09:50 #93105 by Timo
Replied by Timo on topic Of Decks and Tier Lists

Mewcat wrote: I think we are talking across each other. Combat is by far the most complex part of the game, so complex it becomes inefficient and largely ignored when people want to win. There is a lot of 'bad Combat' that shines in combat heavy games but is extraordinarily weak otherwise. Stutter step claws of the dead for example.


Well, I don't disagree with you but I was trying answer the part where you say that in a list of decks, you can say that decks combat are the same and should be recorded as only one entry to avoid too much "granularity". And on this, I disagree...

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