file Ventrue Group 5-6 Best Strategy

29 Oct 2020 08:28 - 29 Oct 2020 08:33 #101016 by Timo
If you want to go with the blocking and hitting thing you will want to go the grinder style which is a great archetype (see below a deck winning a major tournament from one of the best player I know).

Ventrue Stickman
Mehdi Mazni
NAC 2019 Day 1
Columbus, Ohio
2019-06-14
39 players

Crypt (12)
3 Lodin (Olaf Holte)
2 Graham Gottesman
2 Victor Donaldson
1 Mustafa, The Heir
1 Emily Carson
1 Jephta Hester
1 João Bilé
1 Victor Pelletier
Library (84)
— Master (15) —
2 Pentex™ Subversion
2 Vessel
2 Villein
1 Anarch Troublemaker
1 Direct Intervention
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Fear of Mekhet
1 Giant's Blood
1 Misdirection
1 Papillon
1 Ventrue Headquarters
1 Wash
— Action (14) —
11 Govern the Unaligned
2 Entrancement
1 Dominate Kine
— Equipment (2) —
2 Heart of Nizchetus
— Political Action (5) —
4 Parity Shift
1 Justicar Retribution
— Action Modifier (16) —
5 Conditioning
3 Daring the Dawn
3 Freak Drive
2 Bonding
2 Seduction
1 Foreshadowing Destruction
— Reaction (16) —
8 Deflection
8 Second Tradition: Domain
— Combat (16) —
5 Hidden Strength
5 Indomitability
4 Weighted Walking Stick
2 Rolling with the Punches


And you can see in this deck some of the classical tools ventrue use to have successful actions :

Seduction, bonding, daring the dawn.

This version is kind of classic and don't have the multi action part. If you want to go this way, you could reduce the block and combat thing and add 4 freak drive, maybe 2 majesties and 2/3 additional political actions.

Note that this version is coming from before parity shift nerf so I recommend reducing the number of them.

And be aware that this version is classic for a reason. Hitting thing with a stick is a good way to avoid being blocked again and second tradition is arguably the single strongest blocking card and using it to block and doing hand strike for 1 or majesty is such a waste !
Last edit: 29 Oct 2020 08:33 by Timo. Reason: Adding praise to Medhi Mazni !

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30 Oct 2020 23:55 - 30 Oct 2020 23:56 #101030 by Morlin
Thank you, Timo!

It is a great deck that must come from a block-heavy setting. As I see it, it is about several strong bleeds: GtA + Conditioning, supported by Seduction and Sticks. No Majesties and too few Freak Drives, to my liking. Why so? Perhaps multi-acting is overrated?

As I see it, Ventrue will never beat Malkavian or Lasombra Stealth-bleed (or Giovanni powerbleed) if we just deny blocks and bleed, without adding politics and multi-action. Other decks are just more efficient and can do the same with cheaper vampires. Our bruise-n-bleed is worse than Tremere, or Toreador, or Brujah.

Please help me understand. There used to be a classic Lawfirm archetype: bloat, vote, untap, bleed, bloat. Is it no longer viable? Why?
Last edit: 30 Oct 2020 23:56 by Morlin.

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31 Oct 2020 11:39 - 31 Oct 2020 11:45 #101032 by Bloodartist

Morlin wrote: As I see it, Ventrue will never beat Malkavian or Lasombra Stealth-bleed (or Giovanni powerbleed) if we just deny blocks and bleed, without adding politics and multi-action. Other decks are just more efficient and can do the same with cheaper vampires. Our bruise-n-bleed is worse than Tremere, or Toreador, or Brujah.

What you mean? If those bleed decks are in front of you or behind you? They certainly can. Stealth bleeds are very fragile decks which rely on speed and shock value. But if those bleeds are getting bounced they don't achieve much, except that their grand-prey is getting ousted giving their prey the victory point. Any kind of rush combat tends to kill stealth-bleeds as long as SB don't get too much of a headstart. Bleed bounce turns them into an asset instead of a threat.

You think ventrue don't have as much punching power as those Stealthbleeds? I wouldn't say so. Ventrue often get to choose the perfect moment to strike. They just sit there bouncing bleeds and appearing non-threatening; and then when weakness is detected, govern bleed + conditioning, freak drive, kine resources contested, oops, this one vampire just did 9 points of pool damage in one turn. Ventrue lunge is second to none.

Please help me understand. There used to be a classic Lawfirm archetype: bloat, vote, untap, bleed, bloat. Is it no longer viable? Why?

I think lawfirm is still a viable archetype. It depends on your meta, but I wouldn't rate it too high though. There is more combat these days I think. Also less defense against star vampires when pentex was nerfed. Also, without a pro-active gameplan, you will probably get overrun by emerald legionnaires at some point.

Personally I avoid playing decks that are too "toolbox"-y.
Also when you speak of bloating, there is the +1 intercept issue I mentioned earlier.

ps. I am not entirely sure what the definition of "lawfirm" is these days anyway..
pps. I think that the more common blocking becomes as a strategy, so too will combat. As combat is natural counter to walls. Black chantry is printing new intercept cards again, but not stealth...

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 31 Oct 2020 11:45 by Bloodartist.

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31 Oct 2020 14:44 - 31 Oct 2020 14:45 #101033 by Boris The Blade

Morlin wrote: It is a great deck that must come from a block-heavy setting. As I see it, it is about several strong bleeds: GtA + Conditioning, supported by Seduction and Sticks.

Not really. The key part of the deck is the 8 Second Tradition that make it a blocky toolbox. That is also what makes the combat package work. Bruise as a delivery package is terrible on its own because you choke on red cards if no one blocks. But add an intercept module and now you can pick your fights.

No Majesties and too few Freak Drives, to my liking. Why so? Perhaps multi-acting is overrated?

Again, card flow. You cannot reliably have a perfect offensive hand on your turn and a perfect defensive hand on your opponent's turn, you have to make a choice. Stickmen is one deck, Law firm is another one.
Last edit: 31 Oct 2020 14:45 by Boris The Blade.

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01 Nov 2020 20:29 #101037 by brandonsantacruz
For stealth consider Perfect Paragon and Seduction, plus the cards mentioned above (Pentex Subversion for key blockers, Misdirection, Anarch Troublemaker, Mind Numb, Uncoiling (I fucking hate Unmasking)).

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/

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02 Nov 2020 08:05 #101038 by Timo

Boris The Blade wrote:

Morlin wrote: It is a great deck that must come from a block-heavy setting. As I see it, it is about several strong bleeds: GtA + Conditioning, supported by Seduction and Sticks.

Not really. The key part of the deck is the 8 Second Tradition that make it a blocky toolbox. That is also what makes the combat package work. Bruise as a delivery package is terrible on its own because you choke on red cards if no one blocks. But add an intercept module and now you can pick your fights.

No Majesties and too few Freak Drives, to my liking. Why so? Perhaps multi-acting is overrated?

Again, card flow. You cannot reliably have a perfect offensive hand on your turn and a perfect defensive hand on your opponent's turn, you have to make a choice. Stickmen is one deck, Law firm is another one.


I fully agree on this.

You could add some few multi acting tools but you would lose in stability.

The way to play this deck (and his !ventrue older brother) is to wait patiently blocking your prey and predator key actions (GtU sup, consanguineous boon, heart of nizchetus for example) and deflecting your predator bleeds to your own prey and going for some bleeds for 1 - your prey blocks you equip a stick and give a beating to the blocker ; he doesn't block you can play a conditioning and see if there is some bounce. And while doing that you prepare your hand carefully.

And when you see a windows (e. g. he just took a bleed for 3 you just bounced or he tapped out for a lunge) you go for the heavy stuff by playing a key master (pentex the big blocker / misdirection the annoying carlton van wick or the minion with :DOM:) and you go with govern inf and conditioning...

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