Card Idea: Show of Force

Serazahr wrote:

I think this card is a nice addition (and also a logical one) to give non-presence Potence Clans a nice vote-push/defence.

Is there any particular reason why you think Potence needs this, as opposed to any other non-Presence discipline?

I would be somewhat concerned that an offensive combat discipline with pro-vote starts wandering into potentially nasty territory with Archon and Anathema. For example, the Euro-Brujah - specifically, Donal, Constanza, Volker - could potentially put together quite a mean deck just using Pot/Cel as normal. I'm not 100% sure that I'd want to improve their access to perma-rush, diablerie immunity, and significant pool gain. They already get some of the way there with New Carthage and, possibly, Oxford University. This sort of card - and I'm also thinking of some of the variations people have suggested - would just seem to make it easier.

Certainly, I'm not opposed to more diverse access to vote push, but I do think I'd want to be careful about who gets it.

It will probably help !Nos, Ose, Gio more than it would help Bru, Nos (because they gain enough benefit from Prince titles at least as much).

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

It will probably help !Nos, Ose, Gio more than it would help Bru, Nos (because they gain enough benefit from Prince titles at least as much).

For the Giovanni, it's not going to help them that much because there isn't much of a reason to use Giovanni for votes rather than anyone else. They don't have an 'exclusive' vote - like Parity Shift, or First Tradition. And they generally lack vote support. The Mausoloeum is okay but not great. Few of their voting vampires are that solid compared to other clans - expensive (especially because their titles don't give you access to better votes), not so much untap available, not so much stealth available. There are few ways of establishing extra votes - no Cardinal Benedictions, Giovanni Justicars, or Praxis Seizures - and the obvious candidate, Rise of the Nephtali, is somewhat hamepered by the fact that other decks on the table can potentially steal or contest the title by taking the cardless go-anarch action first. So really, what you're likely to end up doing is making a Giovanni voting deck (or vote/bleed deck) that is just a noticeably poorer clone of, say, Ventrue Law Firm.

The Osebo case is slightly different, but they do face similar challenges - not least of which is that their two cheapest titles are held by vampires with inferior Potence. (Osebo Kholo does set them somewhat apart from the Giovanni, of course.)

Defensively speaking, the original seems lacking when compared to the daddy - Delaying Tactics. The Mob Rule style card can potentially backfire, making DT the potentially more reliable option.

Regarding the Brujah or Nosferatu, yes, they do have titles. But static vampire votes are rarely the only thing used in decks looking to pass important votes. They're often peppered with a handful of Awe, Perfect Paragon and/or Bewitching Oration, to help out. They oten make passing votes in the face of your predator bringing out a Justicar and your grand-prey an Archbishop just that little bit easier. Just having the possibility can be interesting. We've all, surely, witnessed the conversation that goes "Well, I can pitch this Con Boon from my hand to tie the vote and make it fail" "Oh, but what if she has a modifier in his hand?" "Hmm, yeah, maybe I'd rather keep it and call it myself then..." All the while oblivious to the acting Methuselah's current lack of vote push modifiers.