New Crypt Card: Valdano, the Carrier

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Oh actually, we'd have to make it so VD is put into play to make this work. I'd forgotten that VD counters remember the text of VD rather than having a card in play remind the counters of their effects.

Then again, if (that's a big if) a new expansion is released with multiples card that expand the concept of the Vampiric disease card, the effect of disease counter could then be moved to the rulebook to avoid clogging thoses cards.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

On that note, is there any chance VD should have a "put in play" effect that will leave it in play uncontrolled by any Methuselah and which will go when there are no disease counters?

VD isn't the only card in this category (counters with lingering effects but the card isn't necessarily in play).

In particular, some vampires issue counters which do not lose their ability when the vampire leaves play. Tegyrius (Camarilla maker) and Theron (Deranger) both have counters whose effects persist if the vampire leaves play.

So while you could change VD to work this way (and similarly, Sabbat Threat), the wider 'problem' persists. So it wouldn't be at all clear that making the change would be worthwhile.


Similarly, Camarilla Exemplary does not go in play. (Nor does Sabbat Priest.) Tajdid lifts the Blood Curse, but does not go in play - it might actually be problematic if it did go in play, since you might infer that the Blood Curse was reinstituted if the controller was ousted. (Potentially important if a vampire is stolen, or two players play Assamites.) Masai Blood Milk actually removes the card that could serve as the reminder of its effect, in order to get that effect.


If this sort of thing is a problem, there's quite a lot of errata to issue.

[Cancel doesn't cancel still]

Neither Revelation of Wrath nor Weigh the Heart say anything about the Corruption counters they put on vampires other than their names. Why would putting Disease counters on vampires be any different?

More generally, should counters carry meaning with them? I guess it seems so in cases listed above like Tegyrius' Allegiance counters (in case Tegyrius leaves play). But, that wouldn't seem to preclude counters from taking on a new or additional meaning if a newly played card did something about it.

Suppose this were a card:

Name: Camarilla Sell-out
Type:
Requires: Assamite
If this card is successful, put this card into play. Camarilla Assamites gain 1 additional vote. Assamites with Allegiance counters gain 1 additional vote.

I suppose you would interpret that as meaning that Allegiance counters granted by Tegyrius do nothing in this case? There seems to be some inconsistency here.

Corruption counters don't do anything until a card looks at them and says I will use you, counters don't carry any weight unless a card that played them says they do or a card played later interacts with them. For the purposed vamp to have the same affect as VD, he would have to have the same wording. In VD's case, the original counter has the affect when played, and the copies do the same as they are copies.

Drain wrote:

My thinking was to make his existing text-given disease counter work like a Vampiric Disease had been previously played on him, thus minimizing his textbox clutter, the unfortunate side effect of that being that the particular rules for its functioning would be found on another card.

Looking back at Drain's original intent, it's different than what I imagined. I thought he should just have the text ""Minions opposing Valdano in combat gain a disease counter at the end of combat if range is close." These Disease counters wouldn't have any effect (they'd be dormant/inert) until *activated* by someone playing Vampyric Disease. Then they'd take on a new role and start burning blood from vampires. Note that until VD were played, the Disease counters wouldn't be burned/lost either.