Powering up Laibon, Orun and Aye

Azel wrote:

Anyway, I think there should be more permanents for Aye/Orun to key off of and a way to get it away from MPA costs. Let me brainstorm examples (I could care less about balance right now; I want to explore ideas and card templates):

Designing those kind of cards just require lot of thinking. Problem is first you need lot of Aye&Orun in deck and then you need some specific new card to fetch them. That might not solve the problem. Now situation is slowly build Aye&Orun -> use Aye&Orun and with new cards it could change to draw some new card to get Aye&Orun faster -> build Aye&Orun faster -> use Aye&Orun. You could build up Aye&Orun faster with some new cards but you still need some specific cards to make some other cards playable in your deck and that is rarely worth of the hassle. The deck can get very clogged still. I feel it is the whole basics of mechanism what is wrong with Aye&Orun. It is hard to fix that.

EDIT Usually it is worth to include cards which are instantly playable by your vampires so you don't draw dead cards. That is one of the biggest problem of Aye&Orun.

I think we can learn from the templates from other groups, like Anarch and Black Hand. They took a while to become stronger, and often we see similar solutions. I especially like your comment about how cards that are not flexible tend to fall by the wayside.

For example the flexibility of PB:LA or Admonitions are pretty nice design.
Also cards that provide more than one function is nice, like Anarch Free Press or Weeping Stone.

What i would like are card templates like this, with + as 4 star power measure, transient is T, permanent is P:
P = General+ > Sect++ > Specialty+++
P = Sect++ > Specialty++ or Specialty++
P = Specialty +++ or Specialty +++
T = General++ > Specialty++++
T = Sect+++ > Specialty ++++

Transients just need more bang for the buck. Permanents can survive more lower level option layering.

Azel:
Can you rewrite your theory with easy examples? (like existing cards) Rephrase what is transient and permament means. What do you mean under "general", "sect" and (especially) "specialty"?

Transient is a one-off use. Most cards, like combat, action, action modifiers, reactions are transient. For example, Govern the Unaligned is a transient use.

Permanent stays in play with lasting effects. Army of Rats is a permanent action with a clause to burn it.

The way I'm using General here are cards generally usable without sect or special trait/resource restrictions. I'm keeping the discussion between Sect and within-the-sect Specialty.

Titles are an interesting case, as some do not natively (or readily) exist straight from the crypt -- for example Kholo, or the rarity of built-in Barony -- but I generally include them within Sect. But Anarchs are an additional interesting case because their setup functions like a Specialty. They often require as much effort to build up sect before they can start using their specific cards.

Here's a layout of some sects and specialties:
Sabbat (sect) > Black Hand (specialty)
Laibon (sect) > Aye / Orun (specialty)
Anarch (sect -- and setup similar to specialty)

So, without further ado, examples!:

Invoke Poison Glands
Combat
Abombwe
Reflex: Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is played.
abo: Strike: hand strike at +1 damage.
ABO: Strike: burn the opposing animal or mortal, or strike: hand strike at +X damage, where X is the number of Orun on this vampire.

This card's template reads:
General basic OR General superior (with optional Specialty)

Ancestor's Insight
Action Modifier / Reaction
Auspex
Requires a ready Laibon.
aus: Reduce a bleed against you by 1.
AUS: +1 bleed; after playing this card, you cannot play another action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action.

Template: Sect basic OR Sect superior

Psychic Assault
Combat
Auspex
aus: Strike: 1R damage. Any effect which would make damage from this strike aggravated leaves the damage normal instead. If this striking vampire is Black Hand, the damage from this strike is unpreventable.
AUS: As above, but for 2R damage.

Template: General (or Specialty) basic. Superior is just a power increase.

Admonitions, The
Master
Unique master.
Put this card in play. Tap to discard one card if you control a ready Sabbat vampire. Tap to draw two cards if you control a ready Black Hand vampire. During your discard phase, control of The Admonitions passes counter-clockwise until it is controlled by a Methuselah who controls a ready Sabbat vampire (or is burned if there are none).

Template: Sect > Specialty.

(Now, let's add rating quality! As Sect effect is like a Barrens, and Specialty effect is like a Dreams of the Sphinx, I'd rate their star lvl pretty high. But table rotation helps lower it from ++++ status. I'd rate it Sect+++ > Specialty+++)

Clearer?

clear, but oh so boring

Well, template design and game theory can get pretty dry. But boring is in the eye of the beholder. B)

Edit: An example of an interesting template on an otherwise dismissed card is Improvised Tactics.

By entering play it leaves a lasting effect throughout combat where various discipline effects can be used. I thought that was the ideal way to construct Anarch combat cards for the future.

Keystone Kine is another interesting example of multiple discipline effects triggering within an action.

Those two Anarch cards have quite exciting card templates for me. If I had my choice I'd explore these to inspire Aye/Orun card templates.