Submission - Pentex Intrusion (Villein-hoser master)

Ohlmann wrote:

"top card" to avoid the card needing too much time for every villein.

Ash heap isn't ordered (you are free to shuffle your ash heap at any time or do whatever you want with it, basically).

johannes wrote:

Just a word of caution: the general design principal for VEKN released cardss is to create enablers not hosers. If something is broken it needs banning, not hosing through silver bullets

So then, when will the VEKN axe Lilith's and GB?

Izaak wrote:

So then, when will the VEKN axe Lilith's and GB?

It won't be complete without also axing Voter cap, the third card that create way too much blood for the effort spent.

Ye well, except that Villein enables so many cards/vampires that it's done more good than bad for the game. The problem (if any) is the combo with GB/Lilith. Killing that seems fairly simple, with the bonus effect that you also get rid of two universal, easy to play cards that create beads out of thin air. The idea of Villein creating a buffer for slower decks to set up is a very healthy one, it's just that if the buffer comes for basically no cost at the moment.

I mean, I would have been perfectly happy with a non-MT hosing trifle Villein that would always take exactly 3 or 4, but that ship sailed long ago when WW in its infinite wisdom chose to ignore that particular suggestion.

Regarding voter cap, I'm not sure if that needs a change. Yes, it also created beads out of thin air, but this is done by a sequence of non-trivial actions to succeed. Sure, I've also been at tables where someone passes votercapped votes every turn and ends up with 80 pool of guys on the table, but that's not exactly the standard, plus it's easy to shut down and/or meta against.