file Submission: Gangrel Antitribu Action "SPD assigment"

10 Nov 2012 23:40 #40762 by Ohlmann

extrala wrote: There is no other card that can burn non-location masters in such a generic way. You can't remove Dreams, Palla Grande, Week of Nightmares with an action or a master card once these non-location masters are in play.


I would like to mention especially Week of nightmare here.

First point, it does not make any sense to be able to burn it earlier - what do the gangrel, reform the antediluvian from its ashes ? Some other master have the same problem since master represent extremely diverses thing that may not be appropriate to stop. If you burn your own Frontal Assault with this card, what does that mean ? And your own Villein ? And a Not to be ?

Second point, the card break when burned strangely : no Ravnos have to burn any blood, so it can lead to combo and strange anti-usage. Frontal Assault is in the same boat in that you do something extremely unintended by the card intent. It will lead to ton of strange interaction and/or erratas.

And finally, the card is yet another way to be sure nobody can rely consistently on a permanent master. I agree that overuse of master is bad, but this lower deck diversity if you cannot be sure to have your Week of Nightmare (or any normally indestructible card that have an interesting effect when you build around it)

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11 Nov 2012 10:54 #40773 by ReverendRevolver
Also,just because !gangrel need help doesn't mean giving them a ton of silver bullets and disruption abilities makes up for them being best suited at almost nothing other clans aren't better at.

in vtm , the protean + celerity was broken because it could burn healthy vamps outright, allowing powergaming. why not allow !gangrel a card to burn a vamp outright in combat if their controller has 20 or more pool? Fixes the lack of oomph a little @ least.

I just have a hard time justifying a really strong master burning power for a clan that invtm burned vamps

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14 Nov 2012 19:34 #40968 by NC-Germany

extrala wrote: There is no other card that can burn non-location masters in such a generic way. You can't remove Dreams, Palla Grande, Week of Nightmares with an action or a master card once these non-location masters are in play.

And with the cost & wording as stated initially the card is way too good. Remove Fame, Power Structure, Vessel or your own Villein in a single action, sure: I just play this card one time and all is gone in a single action? You are kidding, right?


Why do you think the card is too good? It cost Blood, can be blocked and is limited to one Clan.

I think there are other examples of Action cards which are much worse. Besides most of the cards that can be removed are played more than once.

Even if you had a card like this, you wouldn´t play it more than 3-4 times, right? It doesn´t do anything but slower the game.

A real good version of this card would be steal this master as a (D) action.

National Coordinator Germany
:tore: :pre: :cap2:

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14 Nov 2012 19:39 #40970 by NC-Germany

ReverendRevolver wrote: It burns too much stuff. being able to burn a master card that's in play and controlled by another Methuselah that isn't on a minion may be ok. but as is, Charisma, depravity, villein , vessel , blood doll, ephor , paragon, ancestor spirit, regent, any archetype, true faith, there's just too much it can do. burning a wider view, an investment, a powerbase , a tablet, a vampiric disease, an ecoterrorists, that's all maybe a bit good. but burning anything? And not having to deal with normal drawbacks like the damage to burn a path, the time to burnweek of nightmares , the referendum to burn anarch revolt, etc, is abit too flexible. burning an ashur tablet or an investment is morethematic and less good, so even "burn a non unique master card in play not on a minion" could be ok.

good concept , but too flexible in my opinion.


Well, what do you think about pool cost as cost for this action. Sure burining Ashur is free, but burning s.th. like Monastry of Shadows would cost 3 pool.

National Coordinator Germany
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14 Nov 2012 21:51 #40983 by Ohlmann

NC-Germany wrote: Why do you think the card is too good? It cost Blood, can be blocked and is limited to one Clan.


.. and allow crazy and stupid combination (I am sure someone will find a stupid combo deck). And it make absolutely no sense at all anyhow. Like I already said, how gangrel can stop the week of nightmare exactly ? Or even a Palla Grande, knowing other, exactly as good in combat, clan cannot ?

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15 Nov 2012 07:41 #40994 by NC-Germany
Well, from an RPG view SPD (Special Project Division) is a Pentex branch with a Gangrel Antitribu in charge. I mean they make you eat and love contaminated breakfast cereals which causes you to turn to a fomor. Ever looked in your mirror in the morning and wondered why you look so bad in the morning. Thus I am sure Pentex has the resources then to influence big events such as Palla Grande and Week of Nightmares, right? ;)

Ok, ok, when everyone thinks the card concept is too strong, so be it. However I still believe it is a good card and adds a value to the game.

National Coordinator Germany
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