PCK Laibon Set Round 3 of Playtesting has Concluded

Ohlmann wrote:

Lech wrote:

There is no benefit in using Prisci title over Cardinal. Best case scenario is that it's equal in value (as it grant 3 votes in some cases, and you can use some good cards), worst case scenario it don't give any votes at all and you can't play some cards that are prisci only.

Only idiot would argue that multiple prisci are better than multiple cardinals.

And only idiots would forget that priscus are smaller on average than even archbishop. Or that cardinal have nearly no advantage over priscus. It's not unlike saying that prince are less valuable than Inner Circle : you can have them for cap 7 without too much trouble.

Don't forget : if your priscus is not worth 3 votes, it can only be because you put two of them into play. It's like self-contesting prince title. Or arguing that printed justicar are bad because they prevent you from playing clan justicar title card.

(and cardinal card not playable by priscus are ... not very good. Do you really regret not being able to play Auto-da-fé or Deploy the Hand ?)

Priscus title is worth on average as much as archbishop title. If my priscus is not worth 3 votes is when someone else have priscus too, or Gratiano.

There is nice cardinal hunting ground, yes - i miss playing it (and papillon, in case of archbishops). Not to mention that some such cards may be released in future sets.

There is g4 !brujah crypt that have 2 decent prisci.

Don't get me wrong, prisci is decent title.

Lech wrote:

Priscus title is worth on average as much as archbishop title. If my priscus is not worth 3 votes is when someone else have priscus too, or Gratiano.

If another people have one prisci, your own is still worth three vote, smply because it cancel the opposing one. There is no functional difference between you and your opponent having one prisci and you and your opponent having a cardinal, except as I say if you have two of them.

Otherwise, Priscus give 3 votes for 2 on archbishop. IIRC, there is some playable card for archbishop and not priscus, but mostly they are not very good.

In short, saying that prisci is a weak title and/or weaker than archbishop is a bit ridiculous, and using cardinal benediction on a priscus will almost alway be ridiculous. It's like making Alexandra justicar so she can play 2nd tradition : yes, you can, and yes, there is some corner case where this will be the best option, but it's not realistic.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

@Amenophobis:
The easiest idea would be to think of the kind of thing you might use to plug a hole in a boat or tyre before you did proper repairs. In English it is generally used either for:
- a temporary fix that is known from the outset to need to be replaced
- an inferior fix for a particular problem

Thank you for the elaboration.

If I understand you correctly, you view cards that are introduced into the game to have very specific effects against other cards/combos/strategies, or act as enhancers for other cards/strategies as "stop gaps"?
(Examples of this would be: Archon Investigation, Justicar Retribution, Anarch Convert, Cadet, Sire's Index Finger and many more.)

If that is the case, fine by me, but such a broad appliance of the term "stop gap" is a tad unusual.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

RE: Guardians of the Faith Set

1) Is there a thematic reason for Faustrecht[]?

Thematic reason would be that !Brujah are more likely to do things by force. Hence the name - loosely translated into "fist law/rule of force/law of the jungle".
We thought the name to be very appropriate.

Jeff wrote:

Priscus is often considered a much weaker title than Cardinal or even Archbishop. Multiple Prisci aren't particularly helpful, and it is strictly better to upgrade your title via Cardinal Benediction.

Ohlmann wrote:

I love this piece of thing. It's like saying that Justicar title are much weaker than Inner Circle or even prince.

Simple question:

Would you rather control 2 Prisci or 2 Archbishops?

Ohlmann wrote:

If another people have one prisci, your own is still worth three vote, smply because it cancel the opposing one. There is no functional difference between you and your opponent having one prisci and you and your opponent having a cardinal, except as I say if you have two of them.

Otherwise, Priscus give 3 votes for 2 on archbishop. IIRC, there is some playable card for archbishop and not priscus, but mostly they are not very good.

In short, saying that prisci is a weak title and/or weaker than archbishop is a bit ridiculous, and using cardinal benediction on a priscus will almost alway be ridiculous. It's like making Alexandra justicar so she can play 2nd tradition : yes, you can, and yes, there is some corner case where this will be the best option, but it's not realistic.

Unless you both vote the same way, then each of you have 1,5 vote.

Yep, Papillon - decent hunting ground.

Using cardinal benediction on a prisci will never be worse than keeping him prisci (not counting action and referendum innate cost). Making alex justicar decrease your voting potential (3 vs 4 votes). Will calling cardinal benediction be almost always ridiculous ? Not when you have two of them, or anyone on the table have one. Is it common ? Not really, unless more good cards for sabbat are printed.

Jeff wrote:

Jeff wrote:

Priscus is often considered a much weaker title than Cardinal or even Archbishop. Multiple Prisci aren't particularly helpful, and it is strictly better to upgrade your title via Cardinal Benediction.

Ohlmann wrote:

I love this piece of thing. It's like saying that Justicar title are much weaker than Inner Circle or even prince.

Simple question:

Would you rather control 2 Prisci or 2 Archbishops?

I would rather have 1 of each.

Amenophobis wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

RE: Guardians of the Faith Set

1) Is there a thematic reason for Faustrecht[]?

Thematic reason would be that !Brujah are more likely to do things by force. Hence the name - loosely translated into "fist law/rule of force/law of the jungle".
We thought the name to be very appropriate.

See when I hit Faustrecht with Google Translate it came up with "Right fist"... which immediately sounds like it is meant to be the opposite of "Left fist". What I don't get, with your "rule by force" card, is how that is supposed to result in bleed reduction? The anti-flick I can see but the bleed reduction I don't.

The other problem I have with the card is that it requires !Brujah to not be blocked... Blocking a !Brujah should be the easiest thing in the world. Bowl of Convergence and most of your work is done. (Yes the Brujah could beat the living snot out of them but the action still didn't go through, whatever it was).

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Amenophobis wrote:

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

RE: Guardians of the Faith Set

1) Is there a thematic reason for Faustrecht[]?

Thematic reason would be that !Brujah are more likely to do things by force. Hence the name - loosely translated into "fist law/rule of force/law of the jungle".
We thought the name to be very appropriate.

See when I hit Faustrecht with Google Translate it came up with "Right fist"... which immediately sounds like it is meant to be the opposite of "Left fist". What I don't get, with your "rule by force" card, is how that is supposed to result in bleed reduction? The anti-flick I can see but the bleed reduction I don't.

The other problem I have with the card is that it requires !Brujah to not be blocked... Blocking a !Brujah should be the easiest thing in the world. Bowl of Convergence and most of your work is done. (Yes the Brujah could beat the living snot out of them but the action still didn't go through, whatever it was).

You know - google translate doesn't really work well.
Faustrecht is a mediaval german word. It just means what !Brujah with do best: rule by violence! B-)

In a fantasy world (which the WoD indeed is), you can find any number of explanations for all things in existence. When you rule by force, you can exert influence on those you can intimidate. Which can result in less pressure on your resources (in VTES: pool). Voila.

Bruise & Bleed might like Faustrecht. Often D-actions don't get blocked because of fear of loss of a minion. Which happens right often where I come from. YMMV, though.

Jeff wrote:

Simple question:

Would you rather control 2 Prisci or 2 Archbishops?

It's a simple but more importantly a stupid question. Or a rethoric trap, depending on you prefering to be considered as stupid or as manipulative.

First, as Timo said, you actually want one of each. But more importantly, you are very likely to be forced to have one of each. two priscus in the same grouping that pander to the same kind of deck are rare : they are too few of them to have much discipline overlap, and often one is a straight up better version of the other.


That lead to the second point that show how retarded your question is : sometime, an archbishop or even a bishop can fit better your deck than an Inner Circle or regent. Because he is smaller or because his special ability is better for the deck. Or both

Let's take as example a !Brujah political deck in gr 3-4. You have 2 archbishop, Armin Brenner and Marcel de Breau, and two priscus, Hektor and Shawnda. Armin and Hektor stand out of thoses 4 titled vampire, simply because theirs discipline tie well together and they both have very useful special, while Marcel de Breau is too big for basically a blank vampire without useful out of clan discipline, and Shawnda lack too much in the discipline compartment and work better with other vampires.

There is some priscus who share enough to be considered in the same deck. For example, Venere Carboni and Matteus, flesh scultor. There is also a metric shiton of other titled vampire to make your deck with, like Lachlan or Madame Guil. Complaining that two priscus don't "stack" well is the same a complaining that two time the same vampire don't stack well.