[Submission] Incitement

As someone who has actually tried to play anarchs at the tournament level I don't think you understand how much of a handicap it can be to need to become an anarch.

I'm not sure it's such a good idea to assume it others have tried it as well before asking...

Auspex malks with constant revolution/anarch revolt don't count, they are just a deck featuring anarch convert for better auspex wall options.

I don't exactly agree here. It could be said that decks that lean on Anarch Revolts for speeding up the game aren't "really" anarch decks since they don't necessarily play anarch cards, but even then it's a stretch. You'll need to find a way to go anarch anyways not to cripple yourself while you're playing your game.

Most successful anarch decks I've played and seen play roughly a third or half of their minion cards anarch and the rest just something else. I usually cherry pick the anarch abilities and cards I need, and only that, and just supplement anything I could do without anarch. I think it's a solid deck building strategy. Plan for the worst case scenario.

I'm not sure what you would consider a 'proper' anarch deck, but I don't agree if it has to be 60+% (or something, just tossing that out there) anarch cards.

For reference (not sure if I should even, but...), I used to play a G3-4 Gangrel Baron deck a year ago, which did rather decently in 3-4 tournaments, including Berlin's EC. Now I'm tinkering with G2 Samedi Keystone Kine deck, aiming at tournaments.

Krausedit\\ As for the card itself, I think it's rather boring as a +2 bleed action. Anarch Revolt and Constant Revolution are wacky and weird, different oust mechanisms. Just flat numbers don't feel 'anarchy' to me in this game's context. I rather enjoyed the idea of giving mortal allies boosts.

Kraus wrote:

Auspex malks with constant revolution/anarch revolt don't count, they are just a deck featuring anarch convert for better auspex wall options.

I don't exactly agree here. It could be said that decks that lean on Anarch Revolts for speeding up the game aren't "really" anarch decks since they don't necessarily play anarch cards, but even then it's a stretch. You'll need to find a way to go anarch anyways not to cripple yourself while you're playing your game.

Most successful anarch decks I've played and seen play roughly a third or half of their minion cards anarch and the rest just something else. I usually cherry pick the anarch abilities and cards I need, and only that, and just supplement anything I could do without anarch. I think it's a solid deck building strategy. Plan for the worst case scenario.

I'm not sure what you would consider a 'proper' anarch deck, but I don't agree if it has to be 60+% (or something, just tossing that out there) anarch cards.

For reference (not sure if I should even, but...), I used to play a G3-4 Gangrel Baron deck a year ago, which did rather decently in 3-4 tournaments, including Berlin's EC. Now I'm tinkering with G2 Samedi Keystone Kine deck, aiming at tournaments.

Ok, a cursory search of TWDs featuring Constant Revolution shows that 5/34 use a more than ~5 cards that require an anarch to play (especially minion cards). The cards that show up most are Constant Rev and Monkey Wrench (in limited quantities). I did not count Piper War Ghoul decks as anarch decks, even if they had more than 5 Pipers in them. Maybe my criteria of what feels like an anarch deck is that the minions take some action, or modify it in a way that requires an anarch. It could be combat featuring diversion in a !Ventrue deck, sure. I saw The Red Question pop up, which I think is neat. 85% of those sampled decks did not even rise to that level.

I'm ready to be done with this thread. Let's see those Tournament-Winning anarch decks now.

Guardian Vigil is found in TWDA as well, most notably in the EC Berlin winner's deck. Granted, it's still few cases. Apart from that, only one Constant Revolution deck used them however, so that's a thing... Still, it's a new card, relatively.

And I don't think TWDA is the only thing you can base arguments on. Within a year I've seen tournament finals with decks like !Brujah Power of One + Undue Influence, as well as !Toreador Illeglaism decks. There's this one unique Setite mid-cap anarch deck locally which made it in finals twice now within a year's time. Making it to the finals is a feat in itself. TWDA is only for the winners.

I mean, I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm trying to be civil. Sorry, honestly, if it doesn't come out that way. All I'm saying is that you might be a bit extreme in your output, if you say that it's harder to become anarch (in a competitive table) than using a discipline of your choosing. Or however it was.

I'm arguing that it's not THAT hard, and people still go anarch (and play anarch cards) in competitive decks. It's tricky, but people do it all the time.

I feel that anarch, as it is, is in a pretty good spot in the game with reasonably powerful effects warranting going anarch in the first place.

There are a great deal of good anarch cards, effects and synergies. Turning to anarch is quite easy in my opinion. You can do it as a trifle (galaric's legacy), multi-use master (twilight camp), action modifier on an action that doesn't even have to succeed (red question), or crypt option that costs total of 1 pool at most (anarch convert). Once you have an anarch, you can turn your other anarchs easily (field training)
Turning to anarch is not the issue imo.

The question is what do you need anarchism for? Mostly its just a way to do things differently, but not necessarily better. There is reckless and anarch revolt which I consider strong ousting options, and thats about it.

Not entirely relevant to the actual topic, but:

In my experience, Red Question, Anarch Convert and that plain-old-action to go anarch are the best ways to go anarch. You're building a good deck if it has multi-act in it. I often find myself going anarch with Forced March or something. I found Field Training to be surprisingly cumbersome, but it depends on the deck of course. Galaric seems bad, and some have found use for Twilight Camp. Personally haven't.

Anarchs have good recursion (Gear Up and Meucci), good reactions (Guardian Vigil) and a fine combat (all sorts of stuff). Their masters are the best. If you're doing an anarch deck just for the sake of anarch, you're approaching things from a very weird angle.

You can already bleed fine without a flat +2 bonus. Just play if you really want to, or stack other bleed bonuses. It's not like anarch lacks delivery (Crypt Sons, plenty of stealth). You don't have to power-creep for the sake of it. It's not supposed to be Dominate mk. II.

That said, the version with mortal ally support seemed most interesting to me, since it doesn't power creep existing strategies but explores ancient ones (Loyal Street Gang, I feel sorry for you).

Red Question may have made it significantly easier to become anarch, especially with the burn option text. I don't know if it makes it any more worth while, but that's worth exploring.