Share ideas how to use community more in new card design

Ashur wrote:

Sorry jamesatzephyr, I don´t understand your argumentation. I don´t understand your example - nerfing extreme weenie decks with a card that nerf all decks with small cap vampires is idiotic.

Sure. But the people voting for it were often saying "This will nerf weenie decks, that's why I'm voting for it."

So, how do you propose to improve the voting process so that people vote for a card that actually does what they want and not an effect that looks like it might if you're paying very little attention?

Ashur wrote:

By making it counciling for the design team, not the actual, final call. This is a way to include the community, creating an interest for the game, instead of locking some elite in an ivory tower to decide everything.

Now you get to play the managing expectations game. The community has spoken, and it wants a broken card and a pony. The Design Team decides the community is contradicting itself and designs something else.

Look at the forums for pretty much every online game/MMO if you want to see how well this one works. Rah, rah, froth, rah, YOU'RE JUST IGNORING THE COMMUNITY, WE TOLD YOU WHAT WE WANT IT'S SO SIMPLE WHY CAN'T YOU JUST P(JUQOTI*P£TE)QT()EQT)(IY

And so on.

Ashur wrote:

By making it counciling for the design team, not the actual, final call. This is a way to include the community, creating an interest for the game, instead of locking some elite in an ivory tower to decide everything.

Still not seeing how this is different from the current way, with a design team and a forum for card ideas.

henrik wrote:

Ashur wrote:

By making it counciling for the design team, not the actual, final call. This is a way to include the community, creating an interest for the game, instead of locking some elite in an ivory tower to decide everything.

Still not seeing how this is different from the current way, with a design team and a forum for card ideas.

Not sure where to put this but it should be noted that V:EKN has already moved in the direction of greater participation versus how WW/CCP sets were created.

In the past LSJ had full and final authority on card designs and in the sets I participated in, he accepted a large number of my card submissions (though always with the complete authority to modify them to fit his vision--which I was quite happy with). Playtest was also a report directly up to LSJ with no sideways communication between playtest groups.

This set has already attempted to expand the number of people involved in design and there is also a playtesters forum here on vekn.net for discussion.

Of course, this may still not be enough community involvement for some (some may even prefer a completely public design) but I think it is worth noting that the V:EKN leadership did take past complaints into account when this set's design process was conceived.

-Robert

Ashur wrote:

By making it counciling for the design team, not the actual, final call. This is a way to include the community, creating an interest for the game, instead of locking some elite in an ivory tower to decide everything.

Well, as someone who it seems you want to shove into an ivory tower I should reply here.

1) I am NOT a Design Team member.
2) I AM a Playtester along with others in my playgroup. I was responsible for picking the members.

I chose my members for a variety of reasons:
- How much they love the game
- How much they tend to experiment with ideas
- How strong their tournament record is
- How new they are to the game
- How honest/direct they tend to be
- How eloquent they tend to be

So my group contains a fairly new player (<1 year), a "I remember when Jyhad first went into torpor" player, a player with a strong tournament record, a player who somehow managed to get Chameleon to work reliably in a tournament quality deck that has done very well in the past and is known for experimenting. Then there is me, not always the best deck maker, known for taking some real junk into tournaments for the fun of it, maybe a 'rabble rouser' and someone who worked hard to keep my playgroup alive.

I'm not an elite. I am trying to make sure that my playgroup represents the community and isn't stacked with people from 'the elite'. Half the time I argue with 'the elite' around here.

Counselling the Design Team is what the Playtesters are doing. We've been sending back all sorts of responses to the Design Team. I'm sure they're a bit disappointed with some of the stuff they may have worked hard on and the Playtesters have responded with "WHAA?? Sure about that?? It can do XYZ..."

The Playtesters are debating fairly heavily on the cards and so on. We're doing a good job. Whinge about the set AFTER you get to see it. If we, as part of the process, let a dud set out... THEN whinge about it. I'll take it as a fair comment if the set at the end is a dud. Until then Ashur, please, let us just get on with it... as has been made obvious in other places there are enough issues doing on behind the scenes with developing this set!