Power creep and/or inflation

KevinM wrote:

Haze wrote:

it was definitely obsolete as long as it cost X extra pool due to random cross-table Villeins

No, actually it wasn't, in those 10% of decks. There is even TDWA "evidence" to prove this wasn't (and isn't) the case, if you wish to go that far.

more like 5% if you bothered to look up the actual numbers.

so yes for 95% of the decks in the game it was made obsolete; do you have any further evidence in favor of my argument or have you sufficiently proven it now?

Ashur wrote:

Some random thoughts on this:
Villein - Totally wrong way to promote big caps. Big caps should be made do more damage ("throughput", ie shortening games), not making bloat easier (prolonging games).

Villein is the best thing that happened to the game in terms of master variety and crypt viability. The unfortunate side-effects created by Giant's Blood and in particular Lilith's Blessing should be addressed, if required, seperately.

Eyes of Argus - Totally uncalled for, IMHO, with weenie-AUS being what it is.

Weenie AUS "being what it is" isn't doing so hot in the meta and hasn't been for a while. The wake effect is nice and gives auspex and edge over other disciplines in this respect. The requirement on the intercept is properly balanced and only really hurts low-stealth bleedzooka's, which is a good thing.

Ashur Tablets (esp. with Liquidation and Anthelios) - I have no idea what the idea behind this design was (see multiple threads about this issue)

Multiple threads that all quite convincingly point out the fact that the benefits of using Ashur-tech are well-balanced by the required deck-infrastructure and the game being on a clock.

Also, you are right about clans/disciplines "merging". I hope further design takes note of that not all disciplines have to be able to do everything (s:ce, stealth, intercept etc)

Actually, I believe every discipline should have (limited) access to the most basic functions of the game (that being stealth, intercept, +bleed and some sort of combat defense in dodge/maneuver or S:CE). Mirror Walk made a a large number of thaumaturgy/tremere based crypts/decks competitive while Vote push for obfuscate (Old Friends, Animal Magnetism) enables some more obscure decks that otherwise would never even have left they "maybe I can do this..." phase.

Cost and restrictions can be added depending on the discipline's flavor.

Izaak wrote:

Actually, I believe every discipline should have (limited) access to the most basic functions of the game (that being stealth, intercept, +bleed and some sort of combat defense in dodge/maneuver or S:CE).

I tend to agree, but I would go a bit more far.

The goal is to have every set of three clan discipline having access to :
* at least passable combat defense (or good combat offense ; for example claw of the dead or earth sword can be good enough as weakish solution against combat)
* at least some way to make your action succeed (stealth, block deny, daring the dawn, tapping vampires, multiact after failed action, lots and lots of minion, everything that make harder for a wall to block you). Combat does not count, because it lack reliability.
* at least some way to make action fail or otherwise surviving longer (intercept, bleed redirection, bloat, or better wake)

Not all the three on one discipline alone mind you. For example, I would be cool with, say, quietus not helping to make your action successful, because it's paired with obfuscate. On the other hand, I muist admit that 'Resist Earth's Grasp' was the best thing that ever happened to Brujah and !Brujah, simply because it help to actually do stuff without transforming your neighbor in barren warzones.

Actually, I believe every discipline should have (limited) access to the most basic functions of the game (that being stealth, intercept, +bleed and some sort of combat defense in dodge/maneuver or S:CE).

I believe we already have those cards, except for stealth. Intercept can be gained from locations, +Bleed/Combat in Disciplineless combat cards.

Disregard.