A VTES model for the gamestore

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the current licensing situation, but I do think it is worth considering how to sell VTES in the present gaming environment. I don't have any particular revulsion to the ccg model, but I do think it's no longer the way to hook new players into the game. So whatever form the game will take in the future, the best way forward is to consider how to maintain the player base, reactivate lapsed players, and hook new ones.

So what I propose is this: a boxed "beginning" edition of VTES. Each box would include the "beginner's rules", die-cut pool counters and edge, and three sixty card decks. The "beginner" rules should follow Rapid Thought variant, more or less. We want these sets to focus on quick-playing, easy to pick-up and play, and most of all easy to learn. Obviously, three player is a different experience, and hence the need for something like rapid-thought.

What we could have, then, is two sets released at the same time. Camarilla I and II. With the two boxes together, you could the basic clans, and be able to do some deck building and deck mashing by combining sets. I'm not sure of the particular decks, but I'm envisioning well-constructed decks, with advanced versions of Jyhad vampires. The advanced Jyhad vamps has been floated before, and this could be a good way to get them out there, and give veterans a reason to purchase the sets. The decks could focus on small to mid caps for the rapid thought variant. The challenge I can see is designing six relatively balanced and accessible decks, but I do think it's possible.

Other things to consider would be "beginner" text on the card as discussed in other threads. Try to make it clear that equipping is always a +1 stealth action, etc. Another nice feature would include some indication of which deck each card comes from, so you can always reassemble the decks. Draft text would also be useful, for extended replay value.

I'm imagining if this could work, you could slowly increase the decks available. Independent, Sabbat, Laibon, et al. For relatively low cost, players could have decent decks for a variety of factions that would be tournament legal and expandable.

Now, my main curiosity is this. How much could something like this retail for?

Small sized box (Think Fantasy-Flight card game boxes like Blood Bowl Team Manager) with three decks of 72 cards, die cut cardboard pool and edge, and a basic rule book. Ideally, this would work well in the $35 range. Players can buy as much or little as they like, and still have a full self-contained game. With the rapid thought (no blood recursion) and fast three player games, I think we could make the game more accessible to the hobby boardgame and cardgame players, not just ccgers.

Of course we would want to follow this up by having more complete or "real" decks with blood dolls and such available some other way. Or just include them as "optional" for full deck building.

If the game would go print-on-demand style, then you could just have some tournament-winning decks printed out and sold in gamestores. Such decks would certainly be competitve and all of them would cost the same amount (given same deck size). As it was noted before, the model would shift from collecting cards to collecting decks.

Some of the vets would just print the cards they lacked before and others would just buy decks in their local stores for the cards they lack.

kombainas wrote:

If the game would go print-on-demand style, then you could just have some tournament-winning decks printed out and sold in gamestores. Such decks would certainly be competitve and all of them would cost the same amount (given same deck size). As it was noted before, the model would shift from collecting cards to collecting decks.

Some of the vets would just print the cards they lacked before and others would just buy decks in their local stores for the cards they lack.

How would that generate new players? The issue here isn't the print on demand, but how we can make VTES appear again in game stores in a form that will introduce or reintroduce players to the game. If we don't find a way to get new players interested in the game, we may stave off attrition for awhile, but the game will continue to dwindle.

Fantasy Flight Games and games like Dominion have proven that card games in a limited form can sell with cycles of expansions. Why not try and capitalize on that audience with new introductory sets to VTES?

Count wrote:

... die cut cardboard pool and edge...

You can get 1000 wooden game cubes for 60$ at Meeplesource
If wooden cubes are not vampiric enough, you can order vampire meeples too
I like your idea, but I think it will only work if you get a major game publisher behind it (or a kickstarter campaign, but I think that is less likely given the current licensing issues).

How would that generate new players? The issue here isn't the print on demand, but how we can make VTES appear again in game stores in a form that will introduce or reintroduce players to the game.

This argument is based on changing the CCG nature, not some "marketing stuff". What, IMO, is the most discouraging thing about VTES is being a CCG and lack of cards in demand. It is unlikely it would continue in an usual format, so even you could by some older starters from vtes.de for a store, new peeps would drop the game quick due to being inferior in cards, not skill.

kombainas wrote:

How would that generate new players? The issue here isn't the print on demand, but how we can make VTES appear again in game stores in a form that will introduce or reintroduce players to the game.

This argument is based on changing the CCG nature, not some "marketing stuff". What, IMO, is the most discouraging thing about VTES is being a CCG and lack of cards in demand. It is unlikely it would continue in an usual format, so even you could by some older starters from vtes.de for a store, new peeps would drop the game quick due to being inferior in cards, not skill.

I don't see any reason that you couldn't have a store display of starter boxes like the one that Orlok is describing while also offering print-on-demand. If the starter boxes were reasonably priced, they would be an excellent way to get people into the game; the POD option would be an additional selling point: "Here's a $35 low-pressure starter, and if you like it, you can assemble whole decks yourself online."

I love the idea of a simple, attractive starter. I'm not sure how you could easily combine a simplified version of the cards with the basic version (let alone with draft or advanced vampires), but that seems more like a problem of execution rather than anything else - and a problem that might not be a major one if the decks were well composed. By that, I mean I'd like to see consistency both within decks and across decks: give the Malks access to Govern and Bonding, and give it to the Tremere and Ventrue as well. Omit other bleed and bleed mod cards. Put a Hunting Ground, a Blood Dool, and a Villein in every deck, as well as other masters that worked in functionally similar ways. And then focus the clans thematically and balance them against each other: make the Malks scary bleeders but give them little combat defense, and thereby make Brujah rush a reasonable defense.

Here's a problem, though - and it contradicts what I said before: why would stores stock a starter if the rest of the game were going to the POD model? It seems like a pretty limited revenue stream.