A VTES model for the gamestore

Here's a problem, though - and it contradicts what I said before: why would stores stock a starter if the rest of the game were going to the POD model? It seems like a pretty limited revenue stream.

That is quite easy to answer, because the reason is same as before. People are lazy and/or not very trustful over buying over the internet, so they leave all the hard work for the vendors. I've seen lots of people ordering games in my local game store and paying extra, instead of buying online.

As it is now with VTES, it would be hard to convince any new player with a starter deck released in 2005, that the game is still live and kicking. With POD you could sell both fine-tuned starter decks, similar what you suggest AND randomly printed boosters if you choose to emulate a living CCG.

IMHO, the challenge lies in getting things into POD, not adding some extra panache to the game.

Do we really yet know how "print on demand" is going to work? Are we going to be able to order individual cards, are we going to be ordering a "sheet" of cards, etc.

I love the idea of selling tournament winning decks as starters to give people a deck that is immediately competitive (and including a note as to who the originally built/won with the deck to give some V:TES heros a nod). There could even be a boxed set of 4-5 starters so an entire table of would-be players could buy it, sit down and play.

However, moving from an in-store draw for new players to getting players to order POD cards, we need to know what the POD will look like.

Robert Dudock

Not sure why there's so much love for tournament winning decks.

First, the actual number of candidates is not anywhere near the number of total decks in the TWDA.

Second, many of the decks use crypts that the game may not want to encourage - for instance, decks that use group 1, 2, or 3.

Third, while some may be straightforward, a good number are not. Not only might they be hard to grok, but they could be specialized to the point where they add little versatility to someone's collection.

Fourth, winning a tournament is less about a deck than it is about the player playing the deck and about the environment the deck is being played in. For instance, it might be tempting to go with decks that win the largest tournaments, but are new players advantaged by decks oriented towards such events? Or, would it be more useful if they had a deck that only found success in a 10-12 player tournament or a 15-20 player tournament?

If I were going to promote decks to newbs, I would go with straightforward examples of archetypes that run better cards than precons have. The Third Edition !Malk deck with upgraded card quality would be an example. Take either CE or KoT Ventrue, give it a good crypt to fit the high card quality plays in those decks, and put all of the normal stuff in that they are lacking.

The problem with precons historically was that they were trying to serve too many masters (which is amusing considering the lack of masters) and started out too weak. If the SW precons had a legit* Tzimisce intercept combat deck, not a goofy deck that puts Flamethrower in play, a legit Lasombra political deck, turned the !Ventrue into a legit grinder deck (admittedly not a known concept back then), and swapped out !Brujah for a legit !Malk stealth bleed deck, then maybe they would do some good to newbs.

* By legit, I mean decks with enough pool gain, bounce, wakes, focus on their strategies for ousting, and other standard/good stuff plays.

ICL wrote:

If I were going to promote decks to newbs, I would go with straightforward examples of archetypes that run better cards than precons have. The Third Edition !Malk deck with upgraded card quality would be an example. Take either CE or KoT Ventrue, give it a good crypt to fit the high card quality plays in those decks, and put all of the normal stuff in that they are lacking.

I completely agree. We should try and represent a well rounded, playable deck archetype, not a specialized and difficult to play or understand tournament deck.

The trouble is getting veterans to invest in such decks, and hence my idea for a crypt of advanced vampires from Jyhad. We know that many of these vampires are deficient compared to other groupings, so it would be a useful way to make them playable as well. Of course, you put some perfect paragons and deep songs in starters, and I would buy them.

Count wrote:

ICL wrote:

If I were going to promote decks to newbs, I would go with straightforward examples of archetypes that run better cards than precons have. The Third Edition !Malk deck with upgraded card quality would be an example. Take either CE or KoT Ventrue, give it a good crypt to fit the high card quality plays in those decks, and put all of the normal stuff in that they are lacking.

I completely agree. We should try and represent a well rounded, playable deck archetype, not a specialized and difficult to play or understand tournament deck.

The trouble is getting veterans to invest in such decks, and hence my idea for a crypt of advanced vampires from Jyhad. We know that many of these vampires are deficient compared to other groupings, so it would be a useful way to make them playable as well. Of course, you put some perfect paragons and deep songs in starters, and I would buy them.

I agree as well. And who wouldn't buy a Ventrue deck that included Villeins and Freak Drives?

Not to rain in anyone's parade but

Who is going to produce/manufacture this?
Who is going to distribute this?
How shall the retailers (especially in majority of USA), who for years haven't wanted to carry the game, be convinced to carry it?