ReVamping VTES?

Blooded wrote:

All y'all bitching about the core game, go play something else ;D

I realize that this comment is most likely intended in jest, but the joke falls flat for me. It feels too much like "You're enjoying your game the wrong way!" Believe it or not, some people get an immense amount of enjoyment from complaining about games. And for the most part the conversation in this thread has been remarkably civil.

Blooded wrote:

All y'all bitching about counter sizes, just use pogs, man. Seriously dropping a stack of 9 super sayan goku on Hektor is fucking hilarious, and takes up almost no space. They stack nicely, they are easy to track, and are quite cheap.

You do You, man. The conversation about counters got blown way out of proportion, and I have no idea why it's being brought up again.

@LivesByProxy, I'm cooking up some responses for you, soon.

self wrote:

Blooded wrote:

All y'all bitching about the core game, go play something else ;D

I realize that this comment is most likely intended in jest, but the joke falls flat for me. It feels too much like "You're enjoying your game the wrong way!" Believe it or not, some people get an immense amount of enjoyment from complaining about games. And for the most part the conversation in this thread has been remarkably civil.

To be honest, i was attempting make a joke, but frankly, if you dont like playing vtes, dont play it. go play something else. Really that simple. There are vast numbers of players who like the game exactly as it is. This entire thread was spawned by someone who self admits to not having had any meaningful play time, yet wants to make it into MtG. All the complaints that come up are parts of what make this one of the most thought provoking, interesting and entertaining games i have ever played.

I dread the thought that the developers read this thread and think that this is the mind set of the greater community, when by and large most of the community seem to like vtes just the way it is.

Blooded wrote:

I dread the thought that the developers read this thread and think that this is the mind set of the greater community, when by and large most of the community seem to like vtes just the way it is.

Hence I've tried to oppose a different voice in this thread.

Then again I think that the developers are just being nice and letting people voice their opinions without themselves participating or killing off stillborn ideas. You know, just to install a feel of participation and meaningfulness for everyone so no one gets alienated or annoyed. Which is all good and proper.

@Blooded Sand: I don't know how you reached the conclusion that I want VTES to be more like MTG. I explicitly said I had grown to dislike MTG.

Also, the game *has* changed over the years, and while some of my ideas may be extreme, others are very tame by comparison. I would also not call my musings complaints, more like observations.

And there may be a fair number of players who love VTES as is, but I have to wonder what is more important: appeasing veteran players or gaining new players? Ideally both, and we all have a part to play in trying to get new players on board, but I can't help thinking that some changes may be necessary. The extent of those changes is up for debate.

Blooded wrote:

]
To be honest, i was attempting make a joke,

i understand this. I just found your joke to be more dismissive than funny.

Blooded wrote:

but frankly, if you dont like playing vtes, dont play it. go play something else. Really that simple.

given the amount of time I've spent on things like the Proxy Demo Decks so people can have consistent cards to teach new people how to play and the Full Bleed project, not to mention posting here, I'm struggling to understand how you've come to the conclusion that I don't like playing the game. For the record, because apparently I need to emphatically state this plainly: I love V:tes as a game, and love playing it.

Blooded wrote:

There are vast numbers of players who like the game exactly as it is. [citation needed]

is there room for improvement? If there isn't, the game is complete and doesn't need anything more added to it. Given the enthusiasm in other threads for new cards, I think it's safe to say there's still more to add.

Blooded wrote:

This entire thread was spawned by someone who self admits to not having had any meaningful play time, yet wants to make it into MtG.

im going to go ahead and take ownership of this. I levied the same accusation without thoroughly reading LiveByProxy's post, and was in error by doing so.

Blooded wrote:

All the complaints that come up are parts of what make this one of the most thought provoking, interesting and entertaining games i have ever played.

which ones? Be specific. Show your work; tell us why you feel the way you do.

Blooded wrote:

I dread the thought that the developers read this thread and think that this is the mind set of the greater community, when by and large most of the community seem to like vtes just the way it is.

maybe Ben wants to chime in here, maybe not. I think it's pretty clear what's what when you read the thread. My own opinion is that I like Vtes just the way it is, but I'd like it even more if some of the finer details in the mechanics were more consistently applied across the respective ideas. I've been pretty vocal about what I feel would make the game even better, so I'm not going to repeat myself.

If a game doesn't make an effort to improve the things that don't work as well as they should, it's going to stagnate. Stagnate games die, or in the case of V:tes, stay dead.

Lönkka wrote:

Blooded wrote:

I dread the thought that the developers read this thread and think that this is the mind set of the greater community, when by and large most of the community seem to like vtes just the way it is.

Hence I've tried to oppose a different voice in this thread.

See, here's the thing: it's totally fine to have an opposing view in a thread. But, what happens a lot around here is that instead of communicating that opposing view in a thoughtful manner, there's been a lot of posts like "quit bitching," "nobody asked you," "you don't have the credibility to post here" etc. These types of posts are not interesting, lazy, and rude.

Numerous people have said the same thing, but I think it bears repeating: if you don't like the thread, you don't have to read it. But, if you really feel the need to reply, I think everybody, especially those giving their ideas in a particular thread, will appreciate a thoughtful and respectful response. And if whoever has control over the game is actually reading this thread, they'd probably be more receptive to thoughtful ideas that are contrary to another post in a respectful way rather than dismissive "joke" posts or those that try to police what another poster is saying.