question-circle So, what would you change in VTES?

07 Jun 2019 07:22 - 07 Jun 2019 07:31 #95296 by Bloodartist
After the current changes the game is in an ok place. There doesn't need to be huge changes. Some things are still better than others, but it's up to discussion whether that needs to change. Something is always at the top.

Issues I have:

- MMPA is strong and non-interactive. The MMPA decks as a whole aren't excessively stronger than other decks and contest rules(Cybele, Nana) prevent this deck from taking over tournaments. However, that it can bloat so much while taking almost no actions is problematic in my opinion. At least Black Chantry gave everyone equal chance of playing the deck by reprinting vast quantities of ashurs and to a smaller degree liquidations.

- Allies need no more buffs and the number of cards that meaningfully interact with allies is small. This is one of the strengths of allies; there aren't many cards that meaningfully interact with them. We should probably print some new ones.


- Make taste of vitae work on allies. This would be a big buff to combat decks, which are currently hurting when facing a horde of combat worthy allies (such as legionnaires or nephandi). Lorewise it makes zero sense whatsoever that taste doesn't work on allies... its mortal blood specifically thats good for vampires. This is pretty much the only change I really want to see. Alternate route is printing a new card that does the same(and is strictly better than old taste). This change would also be a minor indirect nerf on legionnaires.

ps. Legionnaires are strong but don't deserve a nerf in my opinion. The reason is that in my opinion they shift the meta to a healthier and fun place. That is: towards more active decks. Since legionnaires endgame is nigh-unstoppable, decks need to oust them before they become a threat. Passive gameplay is no longer a good option. Legionnaires get ousted the same way as any other deck, and metagame cards (anarch uprising, trochomancy etc) hit them sufficiently well. (Well enough that I have decided to stop playing them for a while at least)

pps. I agree with previous posters that there are plenty wallpaper cards and weaker clans that need buffs, this is true. However I don't have any specific ones in mind right now so I won't comment on them. I can say however that the attempts to buff Samedi seem to have missed the mark somewhat. They are great in combat and terrible in everything else. I have seen more attempts at samedi decks locally than I can remember and none of them impressed me.

ppps. Reprint direct intervention with new art please.

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
Last edit: 07 Jun 2019 07:31 by Bloodartist.
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07 Jun 2019 07:50 #95297 by PetriWessman

Tadori wrote:

Is this the art for the new Hell Hound? :lol:
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07 Jun 2019 11:53 #95301 by Mewcat
I would change so much that a hard reset would be needed. The idea of vtes is so often better than the actual thing for many reasons and I'd like to bring the game closer to its potential. Goals of the reboot would be:

1) putting the rules on firm ground so ahnka doesnt have to deal with people like me

2) reduce bleeds to 2 or 3 with 4 pushing it

3) reduced pool/bead gain, cards like voter cap giants blood and taste of vitae are swingy and dumb

4) remove all additional master phases except trifles on minor effects and no villien needed

5) make voting more interactive, possibly more vamps with 1 vote, no vamps with 3 or 4 votes, and/or says for players to gain votes by burning pool etc

6) remove imbued. Not a good product at all

7) remove all events or give em all a balance pass. Not a good product at all

8) make combat more reliable but make burning vamps harder possibly.

Just off the top of my head

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07 Jun 2019 13:02 #95304 by TwoRazorReign

Mewcat wrote: I would change so much that a hard reset would be needed.

Same here. Remember what the game was like when Jyhad was first released? It was a much more visceral and harried experience, owing to the limited crypt options and "streamlined" library. I feel the game today deviated so much that it feels very different (not necessarily in a bad way). I would love to see the first four Wizards sets re-released as Jyhad 2.0, with some tweaking and major re-dos. Kind of like what Sabbat War was, but with Jyhad, Dark Sovereigns, and Ancient Hearts included. Maybe include select cards from subsequent sets. But I say everything after that can be cut out. Basically everything on your list plus bloodlines, anarchs, black hand, etc. This is probably just my nostalgia for the old days talking...

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07 Jun 2019 13:06 #95305 by elotar
If, for some reason, somebody forget:
1. Change the combat phase resolution sequence (see Running Naked With a Chainsaw)
2. Drop imbued and, maybe, Events
3. Change the politics "subsystem", so it became less time consuming.
4. 5 transfers rule + two transfers for move one blood to the pool from controlled vampire
5. old aggravated rule (aka burn blood for the first point of damage also), just one blood for leaving torpor, first strike beating SCE
6. +1 stealth for all undirected actions
7. Nerf to "rush predator" combat strategies and, maybe, walls
8. Three player game support
9. Normal disciplineless redirect, cards for weak disciplines to make them synergetic with usual "neighbor" disciplines.

From the top of my head :lol:

:splat: NC Russia

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07 Jun 2019 13:58 #95308 by ReverendRevolver
Agreeing with OP on limiting MMPA sources. You should get one non trifle source ever;
Change all the parthenon, isaowyn, Anson, Cybele, etc to read: "you get 2 master phase actions instead of one".

Also on giving junk wallpaper errata to be playable.

I'd print more non slave gargoyles and support for them, and print precons with copious amounts of staple cards (kind of like what BC is doing but on different scale) so that new players have even easier access to multiple great decks, and the rest of us don't need to dissect decks for cards.

Lastly, I'd find ways to bolster non :pre: vote strategies. That discipline is too good at voting and skews the system with VC and Awe being too good to not run. I would balance them out by giving practical and easy to cycle cards to other relatively common "mental" disciplines to make the referendum more uncertain than one person using 7 standing votes and awe to keep capping a 10 cap.

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