lightbulb Suggestion - Another option to handle constest

19 May 2020 13:07 #99899 by Ankha

Sambomb wrote: If your star vampire got a sensory deprivation, you will not use it.

With your star vampire: Play intercept. Play wakes or unlock cards. Or even play a DI.

Sambomb wrote: There is a lot of ways that you cant just lose your vampire turn 1...

Combat? With your star vampire: Play combat. A vote? With your star vampire: Play Delaying Tactics or votes.

Sambomb wrote: And remember, after the "contesting" vampire leaves the table you can use yours.

A contest? Play ... well... Clio's Kiss? You just need another vampire with Temporis superior, they go in all decks.
Or kill the other Methuselah that is contesting with you! Of course, you'll need other vampires, and maybe some crosstable firepower, while surviving.

I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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19 May 2020 15:24 - 19 May 2020 15:26 #99901 by Palamedes

Ankha wrote: I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.

Playing without any intecept, DI, combat, vote or Delaying Tactics, etc. is similar to basing an entire game on one vampire.
You had the choice to put 12 different vampires in the crypt. You could have put at least 2 different useful ones, but you didn't, and besides, you don't have any backup plan, so your game is over. And where is the flaw? Rules or your deck?

Instead of allowing them to play that way, let them deal with the situation. Players who play so risky should be punished.

And you know, if you really think something needs to be done, it is not necessary to change the rules for this situation. Just design a new card.

Example:
Master
Out-of-turn.
If another copy of a vampire you control with the capacity 9 or more comes into play, there is no contest. Instead, remove the new copy from the game and return the blood to the controller's pool.


or

Master
Put this card on a vampire with the capacity 9 or more in your uncontrolled region. When this vampire goes to your ready region, if there is any other copy with the same name under the control of another player, add "II" to the name of your vampire.
Last edit: 19 May 2020 15:26 by Palamedes. Reason: card design

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19 May 2020 19:49 #99902 by Sambomb

Ankha wrote: I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.


I didn't say its at the same level.

I just said that you can lose your vampire at turn 1 and its a valid strategy to use at least another vampire at your decks for those kind of corner cases.

And thats the point of my proposal, that you can open another option instead of be stucked at a contest.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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19 May 2020 20:17 #99903 by kschaefer
I like this suggestion, but it occurs to me that we need to be able to have the player with a vampire on the board be able to do something in response (immediately or during his unlock). Otherwise, it's only the second Methuselah that gets a choice.

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19 May 2020 23:32 #99904 by Sambomb

kschaefer wrote: I like this suggestion, but it occurs to me that we need to be able to have the player with a vampire on the board be able to do something in response (immediately or during his unlock). Otherwise, it's only the second Methuselah that gets a choice.

Yes, the reason is to avoid contest based on the "new" influence rules where you dont need to turn your vampire up unless you can and WANT.

Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510

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20 May 2020 06:37 - 20 May 2020 10:07 #99906 by Tadori

Sambomb wrote:

Tadori wrote:

Sambomb wrote: At the start of the influence phase, before any transfers be spent.
If a player have at least 1 counter in a unique crypt card that is already in play
They can pay 1 pool, remove this card from the game ( show to everyone ) and move all counters to another card with the same age or younger.

This can solve the main random contest issue ( 2 inactive players for several rounds ) and still holds back star vampires as they still are unreliable if someone else bring it first you will suffer to use it too and the table talk will be very differente since you could have other choice.


I really like this idea it for sure improves things, but this is not a main issue with contesting, Main issue is that you don't have a vampire you build your deck around.

If your star vampire got a sensory deprivation, you will not use it.
There is a lot of ways that you cant just lose your vampire turn 1...
And remember, after the "contesting" vampire leaves the table you can use yours.

If your deck cant play without a specific vampire, the problem is your deck, not the rules and you can still just contest and see what happens.


All of thing you talk about create an interaction, so you have a chance to defend yourself by actually using cards. There is no such possibility with contest.

OFC you can play without a start vamp but why you have to be punished with a random factor (sitting) for playing the game. This kind of games will always deep down be a negative experience.
Last edit: 20 May 2020 10:07 by Tadori.

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