file Would you accept tournaments with Proxies ? and Why

28 Feb 2014 20:58 #59495 by ReverendRevolver
I know, but im really seeing things as bleak for cards being in the hands of people since PoD was announced a no-go.
Steve Weick controlling PoD meant perfect access to the game from anyone wishing any card. Scott tried reprinting stuff as it got pricey over the years, and from what ive heard it kinda worked.
Ben, you did the Heirs precons. Rock Cat was only available on one eBay store, for $30 before httb. Now, those precons are like gold, but rick cats, from bl, lob, and heirs all fetch 1/6 of what they did before that precon was available. And rock cat isnt widely useful.

Imagine if we pod was online, how much different everything about singles, getting solid starters into new players' hands, and even rules erratta decisions would be.

But we arent there. New players getting a deck of 30% proxies isnt as exciting, or remotely appealing, as getting a new deck that works on its own of your own, new cards for this amazing cardgame. I feel that we are trying to convince potential new players that our hobby of racing vintage muscle cars is amazimg, letting them test drive our vintage chevelle, then handing them a soapbox derby car that looks suspiciously like the oscar meier weener mobile for thier own ride.

I know we cant do what wed like to, and wed never say proxy everyting, but ut REALLY dents prestige and appeal to old and new players when we make real cards matterxless

As a non-videogame, we became niche(apparently. I was too busy playing in bands, travelimg for vtes, then starting a family to notice everyones more into candy crush than talking to real fucking humans) at some point, so new players are looking for a game where they talk to people and have cards in thier hands while doing it. I feel we cheapen the latter part with adding proxies, and wouldve seen DM as our death knell if not for the extreme amiunt of work and thought put into to, for which i thank the dt and the testers globally.

But, finding a buried cahce of old cards would be betterthan proxies, albeit less realistic. Cog and monestary are too expensive, and very widely useful. But summon history and purge arent a needed thing.

Mayne ccp coulda printed cog and monestary as promos before cutting us loose?

Anyway, i dont like it, and have no good (see also legal, practical, not using fictional properties) solution, but i do concede the $50 and up range isnt good for the game.

On a sidenote, i still have no cog, and would pay $20 for one, but not more than $50, so the current rates are nuts.
Maybe start a "cog to every player" program where we obtain rights to print just thoze from hasbro and ccp?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2014 00:43 #59499 by BenPeal

I know, but im really seeing things as bleak for cards being in the hands of people since PoD was announced a no-go.
Steve Weick controlling PoD meant perfect access to the game from anyone wishing any card. Scott tried reprinting stuff as it got pricey over the years, and from what ive heard it kinda worked.


When I was asked to join the Design Team, I was firmly of the opinion that the game was finally dead (from an in-print standpoint, certainly not from a playerbase standpoint) and never coming back. This was based partly on knowing of at least two proposals to pick up the game when it was cancelled after HttB, and both of them falling through. It wasn't until right before Origins of 2012 that the V:EKN ICs and the Design Team were told of the possibility of Print On Demand. I was shocked by the news, but obviously thrilled by them. Unfortunately, things ended up not working out. I don't really have much inside info on the reasons why, and I'm especially frustrated that FFG and Hasbro were able to work something out with Netrunner, but Hasbro, CCP, and OneBookshelf weren't able to work something out with V:TES. However, if Netrunner is back and thriving then I still hold out some hope that something can be worked out at some point with V:TES. I don't know when that would be, nor have I been told to expect anything.

Ben, you did the Heirs precons. Rock Cat was only available on one eBay store, for $30 before httb. Now, those precons are like gold, but rick cats, from bl, lob, and heirs all fetch 1/6 of what they did before that precon was available. And rock cat isnt widely useful.


If I had known that the game was scheduled to be cancelled immediately after HttB, I would have made some different decisions about what to include in the starters. LSJ pretty much gave me the keys to the candy shop, but I figured there were more expansions and more starters down the road, so I figured I'd save some reprints for later. Ah, well.

Reprints I had in mind for the HttB starters but didn't make the cut included Parity Shift, Carlton Van Wyk, Liquidation, Ashur Tablets, Enkil Cog, and Fortschritt Library. Pentex Subversion didn't make the cut because I wasn't sure what its status was going to be with respect to banning or errata. Maybe I should have included a couple of Armor of Caine's Fury in the !Salubri starter. Spiritual Intervention was supposed to be in the Samedi starter, but I fucked up and forgot to include it on the list of reprinted cards that needed new artwork (all WotC-era artwork needed to be redone for copyright reasons). I am very, very, very sorry that you all got Cold Aura instead of Spiritual Intervenion. It was entirely my fault.

The design parameters I was given by LSJ:

1) The starters had to be dual-clan: Gargoyle-Tremere, Samedi-Nosferatu, Kiasyd-Lasombra, and !Salubri-!Ventrue. Daughters-!Toreador/Toreador and Ahrimanes-Gangrel/!Gangrel were discussed but didn't make the cut.

2) The groups had to be Group 4 and Group 5.

3) I could include 2 copies of one of the new HttB vampires in each starter.

4) I could include up to 2 copies of each of 2 new HttB commons in each starter.

5) I must include 2 Villeins and 2 Vessels in each starter.

6) I must include 5 rares, but no more than 1 of each rare.

7) I must include 15 uncommons, but no more than 3 of each uncommon. (In the case of fixed rarity such as from the 10th Anniverasry tins, I could decide what rarity category a card would fall under).

8) Any reprints that had WotC-era art would require new artwork, and there was an unspecified number of such reprints I could ask for based on the art budget. (This restriction ended up making the Kiasyd starter the hardest one to design.)

9) The starters must be roughly of the same power level as the previous starters. (hahahahahahahahahahaha yeah no.)

Imagine if we pod was online, how much different everything about singles, getting solid starters into new players' hands, and even rules erratta decisions would be.


I know...I know...

I know we cant do what wed like to, and wed never say proxy everyting, but ut REALLY dents prestige and appeal to old and new players when we make real cards matterxless


The question is whether the price of certain cards represents a significant enough barrier of entry to play, particularly at the tournament level. I don't have an answer for that, but the question was discussed at length at the last NC meeting at the Stockholm EC. We don't have a definitive answer yet.

Mayne ccp coulda printed cog and monestary as promos before cutting us loose?


From what I understand, they had made the decision to cut us loose before design of HttB started. Like I said, if I had known, I would have made different decisions about the reprints in the starters.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, D-dennis, Vlad, ReverendRevolver, Trochomancy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2014 02:11 #59502 by ReverendRevolver
My only complaint about httb starters were how quickly they were gone. And that was CCP not caring very much, as far as I know. Abbot, target vitals, dragonbound, warsaw station, dead hookers, rock cat, deflection.... there were loads of awesome in those lists, so im not all that saddened by not having spiritual intervention.

But, it would be nice if we get our game back into print, by way of the patent lapsing, ccp seeing us as thier nee cash cow(erm, unlikely at the moment....) or Hasbro becomming saintly/its lawyers are freed up having acquired mega brands recently.

Thank you for the insight.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2014 09:22 #59510 by Juggernaut1981
Proxies?
No.

PoD?
Yes, if it ever comes.

Danse Macabre?
Sure, it's set up to be printed.

Future VEKN Sets?
Sure, I assume they will be set up to be printed.


I find newbies being disheartened that they are 'stuck' with second hand cards. But usually perk up a bit when you suggest that there is a good chance they could get a bulk lot of commons off eBay for not ridiculous prices.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2014 10:38 #59511 by KevinM

I need:

146 more freak drives

Want to buy my Una deck?

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Mar 2014 12:02 #59514 by ReverendRevolver

I need:

146 more freak drives

Want to buy my Una deck?


You have 146 freak drives in one deck? Damn, the cheating phase really doesnt ever end......

And i might buy more freakdrives at some point. Rickstock has them pretty cheap now and then, so i may get less cheap sooner or later and buy more. When that happens, Ill try for a bunch at once, and rickstock only has so many.....
The following user(s) said Thank You: Juggernaut1981

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.138 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum