question-circle Errata or retcon reprints of (bad) cards no one plays

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Poll: Should BC errata bad cards to make them better?

Yes, make my wallpaper playable!
8 66.7%
No, I like not playing with 3/5s of my collection!
3 25%
Maybe, some cards could definitely use a buff.
1 8.3%
Total number of voters: 12 ( Oshi, Sydnelson, pauv, Lönkka, PetriWessman ) See more
Only registered users can participate to this poll
01 Dec 2018 20:31 #92186 by LivesByProxy

jamesatzephyr wrote:

LivesByProxy wrote: :modifier: Only usable after a referendum passes. Each Methuselah burns 2 pool if any vampire they control voted against the referendum.


Discouraging people from voting against referendums - even if they think they can't make it fail - makes Voter Captivation better, because the referendum now passes 9-0 rather than 9-6. Voter Captivation doesn't really need the help.


Voter Captivation probably shouldn't be open-ended in the 1st place, but let us go with the tried and true arguments of "you would get table-hate with a global pool damage card like that" and "the table will balance itself if the players are good."

But I get what you're saying. Maybe just "your prey" burns 2 pool if any vampire they control votes against the referendum.

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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02 Dec 2018 13:16 #92192 by jamesatzephyr

LivesByProxy wrote: Voter Captivation probably shouldn't be open-ended in the 1st place,


It's true that Voter Captivation is very good indeed, but that's rather beside the point. Even if Voter Captivation were capped at some lower - but still good - level, such as perhaps 5 counters in total (5 blood, 3 blood+2 pool, or whatever), it would still be better from other players's point of view to have the vote pass 9-6 (3, below the cap) than 9-0.

LivesByProxy wrote: but let us go with the tried and true arguments of "you would get table-hate with a global pool damage card like that" and "the table will balance itself if the players are good."


Table hate isn't some abstract thing that will creep up behind you and mug you - it's developed by players using concrete tools in the game to thwart you. One of the potentially very important sources of thwarting a political deck is to hamper its votes. If it has to use transient vote push all the time, because it's cross-table 'buddies' think the deck needs to be off the table, that's making life harder for the deck. If it gets 3 blood instead of 7 or 10 blood from a Voter Captivation, that's making life harder for the deck. If another deck decides to flip out Volker rather than Anvil, just to make life more a little more painful for you, that's making life harder for you. If the card that generates potential table hate strongly discourages using one of the best ways of dumping that table hate back on its owner, that's a problem.

And political decks are supposed to have the threat of cross-table Methuselahs interacting with them, or not - that's why it's a table-wide vote, rather than a (D) bleed, and why votes can be incredibly powerful. There isn't a robust system of vote bounce (like Deflection), there isn't a robust system of vote AI (Tribunal Judgment gets kind of there, but is poor), there isn't a robust system of vote reduce (like Telepathic Counter or Folderol). Your actions are slightly easier to block, because they're undirected compared to a bleed or a rush, and more people can meddle during polling - those are really intended to be key differential friction points for a political deck, compared to other strategies.


LivesByProxy wrote: But I get what you're saying. Maybe just "your prey" burns 2 pool if any vampire they control votes against the referendum.


Still not at all sure why I should get to encourage making my vote easier to pass and let me gain more blood out of it, by making already excellent cards better.

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