Additional strikes?

Yes.

If you're only allowed to gain additional strikes immediately after normal resolution strike, how does gaining strikes from multiple source work now? Declare all such strikes up front?

We seem to be exchanging weakening Wind Dance for weakening Quickness and Hell-for-Leather at cel.

drnlmza wrote:

If you're only allowed to gain additional strikes immediately after normal resolution strike, how does gaining strikes from multiple source work now? Declare all such strikes up front?

We seem to be exchanging weakening Wind Dance for weakening Quickness and Hell-for-Leather at cel.

I don't really see how that is weakening Quickness and HfL, thats how additional strikes have always worked, you declare all you are going to take at same time.

Klaital wrote:

I don't really see how that is weakening Quickness and HfL, thats how additional strikes have always worked, you declare all you are going to take at same time.

They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier.

drnlmza wrote:

They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier.

In practice people have assumed that you must gain all of your additional strikes after the very first pair of strikes resolve. That's the way I've always thought that it worked.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

drnlmza wrote:

They haven't worked that way since late 2000 - see the LSJ ruling (listed under general rulings, Combat in the ruling list) I quoted earlier.

In practice people have assumed that you must gain all of your additional strikes after the very first pair of strikes resolve. That's the way I've always thought that it worked.

not here it was not...
Here we played it like this :

Normal strikes.

player one : hand strike
Player two: hand strike

resolve strikes

player one : Blur
Player two : Blur

player one :My first blur additional strike is dodge
Player two: My first blur additional strike is hand strike

resolve strikes

Player one : my second blur strike is hand strike
Player two : my second blur strike is pushing the limit

Resolve strikes

Player one : i have no more additional strikes
Player two : i play hell for leather at cel

player two: my hell for leather strike is pushing the limit

Resolve strikes



And i never met players that played it differently, in other playgroups outside my country as well

Here is a summary I wrote to help me understand the rules question. Looking at specific scenarios after the first strike pair is resolved.

This is not my way of answering the ruling question. Regardless of what the rules allow, it is my opinion that the last two scenarios ought to be illegal.

The following scenarios are OK:

A gains an additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.
A gains a bonus additional strike (Blur, Quickness, Jacko, etc.).
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.

The following scenarios are NOT OK:

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.
A gains a bonus additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.
A does not gain a bonus additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
B's strike is declared and resolved.

I suspect the rules need a minor tweak here.

Rule 6.4.3 states "Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed."

First, what is "completed?" The previous rules section uses "resolved" - and the language should be consistent. Resolved = prevented, healed (blood burned) or on the way to torpor. Completed = the rules don't state.

Second, nowhere in the rules is it stated that additional strikes MUST be used sequentially, only that they are gained and performed (sometime) after the first pair.

So with our vs combat described in previous posts, it could actually go like this.

Hands for 1
Wind Dance
Strikes resolve.

Blur.

Hands for 1.
"The rules don't say I must use my additional here, so no strike"
Strike resolve, takes one

Hands for 1, Target Vitals
"See how smart I am, NOW dodge"

Before you say "No way" - read the rule excerpt I pasted above. "announced and performed" without any specification of when those might take place.

Even vs can get ugly. Minion 2 waits until Minion 1 burns blood for a couple of strikes, sees that he can torporize Minion 1 and jumps in with his own Blur after Minion 1's 3rd strike.

In order to simplify the whole thing, I suggest a couple of minor tweaks.

1) If you gaining additional strikes, you must use them immediately following the gaining the additional strikes.

2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way).

While this might seem like it screws with our current use of the impulse as a timing tool, it doesn't. There are other situations that restrict card play inside combat (e.g., can't play prevention cards with no incoming damage).

All that said, I propose the following changes to 6.4.3. I'll break it out into individual sentences to prevent a wall of text, with my proposed changes in italics.

Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat.

Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. Additional strikes (if any) are gained immediately after resolving that minion's strike

The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual.

Additional strikes are handled by having another set of choose strike phase and resolve strike phases in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cardschoose strikes.

All additional strikes within a round of combat take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat.

Darby.

If you have any pending (additional) strikes, wait until those strikes are resolved before gaining further additional strikes (if you are allowed to use more than one additional-strike-gaining effect in a round). [LSJ 20001206]

Can't find any rules that contradict this scenario.

Minion A gain 2 additional strikes using blur.
Minion B choose to not gain additional strikes.

The two strikes from Blur resolve. Minion B does not strike.

Minion A gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather.
Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Pursuit.

Strikes resolve.

Minion A cannot gain more additional strikes.
Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather.

Strike resolve.