Additional strikes?

Here is a summary I wrote to help me understand the rules question. Looking at specific scenarios after the first strike pair is resolved.

This is not my way of answering the ruling question. Regardless of what the rules allow, it is my opinion that the last two scenarios ought to be illegal.

The following scenarios are OK:

A gains an additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.
A gains a bonus additional strike (Blur, Quickness, Jacko, etc.).
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.

The following scenarios are NOT OK:

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.
A gains a bonus additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
Strikes are declared and resolved.

A gains an additional strike.
B does not gain an additional strike.
A's strike is declared and resolved.
A does not gain a bonus additional strike.
B gains an additional strike.
B's strike is declared and resolved.

I suspect the rules need a minor tweak here.

Rule 6.4.3 states "Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed."

First, what is "completed?" The previous rules section uses "resolved" - and the language should be consistent. Resolved = prevented, healed (blood burned) or on the way to torpor. Completed = the rules don't state.

Second, nowhere in the rules is it stated that additional strikes MUST be used sequentially, only that they are gained and performed (sometime) after the first pair.

So with our vs combat described in previous posts, it could actually go like this.

Hands for 1
Wind Dance
Strikes resolve.

Blur.

Hands for 1.
"The rules don't say I must use my additional here, so no strike"
Strike resolve, takes one

Hands for 1, Target Vitals
"See how smart I am, NOW dodge"

Before you say "No way" - read the rule excerpt I pasted above. "announced and performed" without any specification of when those might take place.

Even vs can get ugly. Minion 2 waits until Minion 1 burns blood for a couple of strikes, sees that he can torporize Minion 1 and jumps in with his own Blur after Minion 1's 3rd strike.

In order to simplify the whole thing, I suggest a couple of minor tweaks.

1) If you gaining additional strikes, you must use them immediately following the gaining the additional strikes.

2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way).

While this might seem like it screws with our current use of the impulse as a timing tool, it doesn't. There are other situations that restrict card play inside combat (e.g., can't play prevention cards with no incoming damage).

All that said, I propose the following changes to 6.4.3. I'll break it out into individual sentences to prevent a wall of text, with my proposed changes in italics.

Additional Strikes: Some cards and effects allow a minion to make additional strikes during the current round of combat.

Additional strikes are announced (gained) and performed (used) only after the first pair of strikes are completed. Additional strikes (if any) are gained immediately after resolving that minion's strike

The acting minion decides whether or not to gain additional strikes before the opposing minion, as usual.

Additional strikes are handled by having another set of choose strike phase and resolve strike phases in which only the minions with additional strikes may play strike cardschoose strikes.

All additional strikes within a round of combat take place at the same range. This is repeated as necessary. A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat.

Darby.

If you have any pending (additional) strikes, wait until those strikes are resolved before gaining further additional strikes (if you are allowed to use more than one additional-strike-gaining effect in a round). [LSJ 20001206]

Can't find any rules that contradict this scenario.

Minion A gain 2 additional strikes using blur.
Minion B choose to not gain additional strikes.

The two strikes from Blur resolve. Minion B does not strike.

Minion A gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather.
Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Pursuit.

Strikes resolve.

Minion A cannot gain more additional strikes.
Minion B gain 1 additional strike using Hell-for-Leather.

Strike resolve.

TryDeflectingThisGrapple wrote:

2) Additional strikes are gained immediately after your current strike resolves. If you didn't strike, you don't have a window to gain additional strikes (this gets by simply deferring additional until Wind Dance gets out of the way).

This powers up Lapse at (which arguably could use a boost) and effects like grappling a minion who used a gun to maneuver, which may be more of a problem.

Rulebook 6.4.3

Normally, each minion gets only one strike per round. Some cards may allow a minion to get additional strikes during a round of combat. Each pair of strikes (one from each of the minions) is resolved before going on to the next pair. If only one minion has additional strikes, the "pair" will be just his strike.

This indicates that strikes are resolved in pairs. If the acting minion declares an additional strike, and the other minion does not, then the other minion cannot play additional strikes later.

There is no good reason to take away the advantage of a minion with more strikes.

(Imagine if V:tES was redesigned with the new World of Darkness... NO ADDITIONAL STRIKES. I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one. Someday, I hope you'll join me.)