Declared Effects as Public Information

When I use Ericyes Fragments, Ashur Tablets, etc, do I have the obligation to show others methuselahs the cards Im taking and whats happening to them?

Some people I know are saying that you can at most LOOK at the ash heap before and after the action and TRY TO GUESS what happened. So it would be possible to use Ericyes and do not show the card taken to it. Other methuselahs could only be guessing.

but I disagree. Whats the correct answer then? And why?

When you use those effects, you must announce which card(s) you are moving. Similar to announcing an action:

Rulebook wrote:

All details of the action are declared when the action is announced, including the target(s), the cost, the effects, etc. Any card required for the action is played (face up) at this time. Tap the acting minion (only ready untapped minions can take actions).

EXCEPTION: Any decisions to be made for a referendum are not declared until the action succeeds (see The Political Action, sec. 6.3.1).

groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/erciyes$20fragment$20announce/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/7fMPCYIPrag/mjZoY0oGz0QJ

Money quote:

LSJ wrote:

That's one reason for the way things are as they are, in fact. Since the ash
heap is known, there's no reason to turn the card play into a 15-minute
"memorize this set and then look away while I make a change and then identify
the changes" exerecize for each of the other players.

The other reason, as stated, is that effects are announced.

Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".

Yes there's obviously an "effects are announced" rule, but I don't know where it is. We will find out when Pascal chimes in.

Charles_Bronson wrote:

Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".

Even the basic Magic rulebook says "Cards in your graveyard are always face up and anyone can look at them at any time."

If we have VTES players that are going to power game, I suppose we should redo the rulebook so that they aren't able to do so.

Charles_Bronson wrote:

Thank you, but I think the rulebook should be more clear in this point, and extend the rule of 6.2.1 to all cards and effects, not only "action".

Fully declaring cards is already in the rulebook.

1.6.1.1: "The player completely declares the effect of the card when it is played."


In general, other effects follow the same rules as playing cards (except where that obviously can't work, like you don't put Wynn in limbo when using his built-in action) - they're both just sources of an effect. It wouldn't hurt to make that clearer, but dozens of rulings have been issued confirming this over the years.