file Anarch Revolt and losing anarchs during Untap phase

19 Jul 2013 22:40 #51889 by delangen
Forgot to clarify the during his/her untap phase just refers to when the penalty must be paid for not having a ready anarch to quell the revolt...

:aus: :dom: :tha: :for: :trem:

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20 Jul 2013 00:03 #51890 by Boris The Blade

Would make sense the Anarch covers the revolt then has others happen... burn with leopold or send to torpor... etc

No, because the effect of the revolt is not "check for an anarch", it is "burn 1 pool" (card text). As long as you control an anarch, you cannot resolve that effect (card text). If you lose your anarch, then that restriction disappears and you must resolve the revolt, in the order that you prefer with other untap phase effects.

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20 Jul 2013 15:21 #51916 by delangen
As far as I thought the untap phase doesn't have any time or steps to it,no begining no middle no end, everything technically happens at the same time, therefore your anarch is both ready and not ready.... so you should be able to resolve any terms or effects in the order you see fit.. it is up to the methuselah who's turn it is.

If I am wrong I humbly appologize however will wait for the official ruling before I change how I judge my games.

thank you kinely

:aus: :dom: :tha: :for: :trem:

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20 Jul 2013 18:43 - 20 Jul 2013 18:44 #51920 by jamesatzephyr

As far as I thought the untap phase doesn't have any time or steps to it,


Incorrect. See vekn.net/index.php/complete-rules-reference

III.A shows the untap phase, including the order of effects (untap your cards comes first).

no begining no middle no end, everything technically happens at the same time,


Wildly incorrect. Very, very few effects in V:TES happen simultaneously, and the entire untap phase is very definitely not one of them! (The important ones are strike resolution for strikes at the same 'speed', and issues regarding simultaneous ousting.)
Last edit: 20 Jul 2013 18:44 by jamesatzephyr.

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20 Jul 2013 19:09 #51922 by Boris The Blade

If I am wrong I humbly appologize however will wait for the official ruling before I change how I judge my games.

The official answer has already been given by Pascal.

so you should be able to resolve any terms or effects in the order you see fit.. it is up to the methuselah who's turn it is.

That is correct. What you got wrong is how to resolve Anarch Revolt. You cannot say "I resolve the Anarch Revolt now, I have an Anarch so I don't lose pool", because that is not what is written on the card. The only way to resolve Anarch Revolt is to burn a pool. As long as you control an Anarch, you cannot resolve that effect. If you control an Anarch for the whole untap phase, you don't burn the pool at all, not because you resolved the Anarch Revolt with an Anarch, but because you didn't resolve it at all. Consequently, if you have an anarch at the beginning of the untap phase and you lose it somehow, the revolt is still unresolved when you lose it, and now you need to resolve it.

Now consider the opposite situation: you start your untap phase without an anarch, and you manage to gain one during the untap phase. Since you can choose how to order untap phase effects, you can delay the resolution of the Revolt until after you gain your anarch, and at that point you don't resolve it anymore.

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22 Jul 2013 06:02 #51984 by Pascal Bertrand

When your anarch vampire leaves the ready region, do you have a ready anarch? No. So, pay 1 pool.

IOW: Since there is no language that says you can pay something or tap something to activate Anarch Revolt and turn it "off", it's always "on".

Or: "During [the] untap phase" = at any/all time within the phase

Not really.
Anarch Revolt doesn't read "Whenever you don't control a ready anarch vampire in your untap phase", but rather "if you don't control a ready anarch vampire during your untap phase".
That's an effect that can be ordered with other "during your untap phase" effects - such as, for instance, Renewed Vigoring your anarch.

"During [the] untap phase" == "at some point within the phase" (rather than "each and every second of it")

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