Kraken's Kiss, Telepathic Tracking and S:CE

What about Coma ?

[dem] Strike: opposing vampire goes into torpor.
[DEM] As above, and that vampire does not untap as normal during his or her controller's next untap phase.

A plays sup Coma
B plays Meld with the land
A plays telepathic tracking

- does B untap as normal during his next untap phase ?
- if B does not untap, is A playing TT really necessary for the "no untap" effect to kick in ?

The question is also "how do you tell additional effects that are part of the strike(*) apart from those that aren't(**) ?"

(*) like probably the "do not untap" from Coma or the "put this card on the opposing minion" from, say, Putrefaction or Bonecraft
(**) like Aid From Bats press and Kraken Kiss shenanigans

Timo wrote:

I think I have found something which is related :

groups.google.com/forum/?hl=fr#!topic/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/J1V7HOb2tQE

It says by LSJ :

A dodge negates all of the effects the strike would have on the dodging
minion. It doesn't negate a press (e.g., dodging a superior Thrown Sewer Lid
won't negate the press).

So I guess that as long as the strike card is not cancelled and the other effect is not related to the strike, a S:CE followed by a TT will see the other effects given by the strike card applied as normal.

That's be my best guess, too. The other effects of KK aren't "strike effects", and I don't see any reason why combat ends (or dodge) would negate them -- so they should continue fine after SC:E + TT.

FrançoisV wrote:

What about Coma ?

[dem] Strike: opposing vampire goes into torpor.
[DEM] As above, and that vampire does not untap as normal during his or her controller's next untap phase.

A plays sup Coma
B plays Meld with the land
A plays telepathic tracking

- does B untap as normal during his next untap phase ?
- if B does not untap, is A playing TT really necessary for the "no untap" effect to kick in ?

Coma is not applied to the opposing vampire (S:CE beats the strike and hence beats the "and that vampire" clause causing it to not occur).

Telepathic Tracking does nothing more than continue a combat that should have ended. If you want to put it another way, functionally Telepathic Tracking says "If the Press Step resulted in 'No more rounds', then start a new round." So the current combat does not end.

Psyche! however is functionally closer to "If the combat is about to end completely, then begin a new one immediately." So the old combat ends and a new one starts immediately at the end of the current one and without being able to be avoided.



Effects that can be 'avoided' are those logically attached to the strike and target the opposing minion.

"Strike: X and [do something to the opposing minion]" then you avoid all of it.

"Strike: X. The other minion has this happen." then you still avoid all of it.

"Strike: X and untap this minion" then you avoid the strike, but not the untap because it wasn't aimed at you.

"Strike: X, with an optional Y" then you avoid the strike, but the optional Y (press, reduce a cost, prevent damage, etc) is not aimed at the opposing minion and will still happen.