file Tupdog

09 Oct 2014 17:08 #66295 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Tupdog

Blooded Sand wrote:

Ashur wrote:

extrala wrote: The tupdog cannot take (D) actions unless a Tremere antitribu is ready. This includes his built in (D) action.

Hehe, "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." Sometimes, not always! :)


Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status


There is no reson it would, if it could rush without a !tremere around then it wouldn't be a slave.

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09 Oct 2014 17:33 - 09 Oct 2014 17:34 #66297 by ruiza97
Replied by ruiza97 on topic Tupdog
The "slave" keyword is on the card, so "1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards - Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence." still applies.

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Last edit: 09 Oct 2014 17:34 by ruiza97.

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09 Oct 2014 18:35 #66299 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Tupdog

Blooded Sand wrote: Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status


Tupdog's card text provides an additional (D) action that he can take, when he can take a (D) action - much like a cardless bleed action, a cardless diablerie action, the (D) action to mess with Powerbase: Chicago, or Bum's Rush. When Tupdog is able to take a (D) action, he can pick from any of those actions - including the extra one from his card text.

Until he has a master vampire out, however, he can't take a (D) action at all.

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09 Oct 2014 20:10 #66300 by Jeff Kuta
Replied by Jeff Kuta on topic Tupdog

Blooded Sand wrote: Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status


Definition of Slave trait.

Rulebook wrote: Slave: Some minions are identified as slaves to a specified clan. A slave cannot take a directed action if his controller doesn't control a ready member of the specified clan. Also, if a member of the specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking minion instead.


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10 Oct 2014 04:35 - 10 Oct 2014 04:41 #66317 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Tupdog

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Blooded Sand wrote: Apart from it would be imbalanced, no-one has ever to my satisfaction explained to me why 1.4 does not over ride his slave status


Tupdog's card text provides an additional (D) action that he can take, when he can take a (D) action - much like a cardless bleed action, a cardless diablerie action, the (D) action to mess with Powerbase: Chicago, or Bum's Rush. When Tupdog is able to take a (D) action, he can pick from any of those actions - including the extra one from his card text.

Until he has a master vampire out, however, he can't take a (D) action at all.

Correct. When a effect overrides a rule, it doesn't extend beyond the scope of that effect.

"Tupdog may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action" isn't the same as "Tupdog may enter combat with any minion as a (D) action and can take (D) actions ignoring its slave status".

So basically,
1/ he can enter combat as a (D) action
2/ he can't take (D) actions while there isn't a ready !Tremere.

As always, the "can't" part take precedence over the "can" part.
Here's another example for this: Tupdog can enter combat with A + A has a Secure Haven (can't take (D) actions against him) = Tupdog can't enter combat with A.

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Last edit: 10 Oct 2014 04:41 by Ankha.

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10 Oct 2014 04:40 #66318 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Tupdog

Ankha wrote: Correct. When a effect overrides a rule, it doesn't extend beyond the scope of that effect.

This is also true for Walker Grimes: "Master cards that target Walker cost you an additional pool."
Since only the player who plays a card pays the cost of it (unless explicit card text such as a Ravnos Cache), the controller of Walker doesn't pay when other players play a master card on him. "cost you" is the key part. Walker's effect doesn't allow players to pay cards played by other players.

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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