file Ballot vs Fee Stake

07 Mar 2018 16:05 #85609 by beslin igor
How works ballots vs efect 1 fewer votes?

Q1) Fee Stake: Perth

Cardtype: Action
Requires a ready anarch with capacity above 4. +1 stealth action. Title.
Put this card on the acting anarch to represent the unique anarch title of Baron of Perth. This may lead to a contested title. Any vampire can call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action. In that referendum, non-anarch titles are worth 1 fewer votes.

So,when any vampire call referendum to burn this card,how that afect ballots and prisci sub referendum?

Q2) Free States Rant

Cardtype: Political Action
Requires an Independent vampire.
Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to each vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, non-priscus titles are worth 1 fewer vote each, priscus title is worth 1 less ballot, and burning the Edge is worth an additional vote.

Gratiano

Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Lasombra
Group: 2
Capacity: 8
Discipline: obf pot DOM OBT
Sabbat priscus: Gratiano gets one additional ballot. +1 bleed.

So in refendum Free States Rant,all prisci have 0 ballots and Gratiano have 1,that automaticli count controler Gratiano gets prisci sub referendum-him have 3 votes,right?

Q3) How Q1 affect Gratiano(if have any efect)?

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07 Mar 2018 16:13 #85610 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Ballot vs Fee Stake

beslin igor wrote: How works ballots vs efect 1 fewer votes?

Q1) Fee Stake: Perth

Cardtype: Action
Requires a ready anarch with capacity above 4. +1 stealth action. Title.
Put this card on the acting anarch to represent the unique anarch title of Baron of Perth. This may lead to a contested title. Any vampire can call a referendum to burn this card as a +1 stealth political action. In that referendum, non-anarch titles are worth 1 fewer votes.

So,when any vampire call referendum to burn this card,how that afect ballots and prisci sub referendum?

Not affected, they don't get -1 ballot.

beslin igor wrote: Q2) Free States Rant

Cardtype: Political Action
Requires an Independent vampire.
Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to each vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, non-priscus titles are worth 1 fewer vote each, priscus title is worth 1 less ballot, and burning the Edge is worth an additional vote.

Affected, they are worth 1 less ballot.

beslin igor wrote: Gratiano

Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Lasombra
Group: 2
Capacity: 8
Discipline: obf pot DOM OBT
Sabbat priscus: Gratiano gets one additional ballot. +1 bleed.

So in refendum Free States Rant,all prisci have 0 ballots and Gratiano have 1,that automaticli count controler Gratiano gets prisci sub referendum-him have 3 votes,right?

Correct.

beslin igor wrote: Q3) How Q1 affect Gratiano(if have any efect)?

He's not affected. If he were Cardinal, he would keep his additional ballot, and would have 2 votes (3 - 1) in the main referendum and 1 ballot in the prisci sub-referendum.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: beslin igor

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07 Mar 2018 20:13 #85617 by Blooded Sand
Replied by Blooded Sand on topic Ballot vs Fee Stake

Ankha wrote: He's not affected. If he were Cardinal, he would keep his additional ballot, and would have 2 votes (3 - 1) in the main referendum and 1 ballot in the prisci sub-referendum.


This seems highly counter intuitive. A vampire may only have one political title. Priscus is a title. Voting in the sub referendum is reserved to priscii. how can he vote in the priscii sub and then have a totally different title in the main referenum?

:assa: :flight: :QUI: :OBF: :POT: :FOR: :TEM: :DOM:

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07 Mar 2018 20:27 - 07 Mar 2018 20:27 #85619 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Ballot vs Fee Stake
Card text: "Gratiano gets one additional ballot."

That is no different than "Eze gets 1 additional vote."

The additional vote or ballot is just special text that does not prevent the vampire from having a title because in and of itself the additional vote/ballot is not a title.
Last edit: 07 Mar 2018 20:27 by kschaefer. Reason: Grammar fix.

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07 Mar 2018 21:55 - 07 Mar 2018 23:13 #85621 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Ballot vs Fee Stake

Blooded Sand wrote: This seems highly counter intuitive. A vampire may only have one political title. Priscus is a title. Voting in the sub referendum is reserved to priscii. how can he vote in the priscii sub and then have a totally different title in the main referenum?


There was a rule in the Sabbat expansion rulesheet that required that and an RTR in 1997, but it was overturned many years ago - a quick delve through history suggests it may have happened in the Final Nights rulebook. Anyone with ballots can cast them in the Priscus sub-referendum.

Additionally, any Priscus is free to cast votes in the main referendum if they have them - such as Genevieve (her special is a vote in the main referendum), or any Priscus playing Bewitching Oration or any other vote modifier. There's no problem with participating in both the main and subreferendum - except that your votes and ballots must be cast the same way.
Last edit: 07 Mar 2018 23:13 by jamesatzephyr.

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07 Mar 2018 22:10 #85622 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Ballot vs Fee Stake

Ankha wrote:

beslin igor wrote: Gratiano

So in refendum Free States Rant,all prisci have 0 ballots and Gratiano have 1,that automaticli count controler Gratiano gets prisci sub referendum-him have 3 votes,right?

Correct.


The Priscus sub-referendum has all the ballots cast in it, and then the winning side has 3 votes cast for or against the referendum. But that block of 3 votes isn't cast by any individual Priscus - which would be potentially non-sensical on a table with two or more Priscus anyway.

This doesn't make much difference, but would be relevant e.g. to Tribunal Judgment, and one or two other corner-case effects.

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