question-circle Undead Persistence vs Amaranth and Decapitate

15 Jan 2020 16:47 #98602 by Dante1991
About the following three cards bellow:

Undead Persistence;


Amaranth;


Decapitate.


These three cards recently have the same SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT text to be played:

"When the (opposing) vampire WOULD GO (to) TORPOR."

The question is: Does Undead Persistence effect prevent the wounded vampire to be burnt by Decapitate and Amaranth?
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15 Jan 2020 18:05 - 15 Jan 2020 18:07 #98604 by Bloodartist

Dante1991 wrote: The question is: Does Undead Persistence effect prevent the wounded vampire to be burnt by Decapitate and Amaranth?


It prevents the vampire from going to torpor, so the requirements for playing either Decapitate or amaranth cannot be met. They simply aren't playable. Note that the combat ends before the vampire playing persistence goes to torpor, so there is no point where decap and amaranth are playable, since you cant play combat cards after combat has ended.

"If a man wanders into a tiger's domain, it may result in his being devoured.
And so it has."
-- Pisha, VtM:B

Last edit: 15 Jan 2020 18:07 by Bloodartist.
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15 Jan 2020 19:43 #98605 by Dante1991
Some players believe that due to the requirement text are the same, both the effects work at the same moment:

Which brings other questions:

1 Is there preference of play for the acting or blocking vampires?

2 Does Undead Persistence prevent the vampire from going to torpor by playing this card at the strike resolution, regardless the vampire being acting or blocking?

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15 Jan 2020 20:04 - 15 Jan 2020 20:06 #98606 by Bloodartist

Dante1991 wrote: Some players believe that due to the requirement text are the same, both the effects work at the same moment:

Which brings other questions:

1 Is there preference of play for the acting or blocking vampires?

Yes. From the detailed play summary (found in site map on the left):

PLAYING CARDS AND OTHER EFFECTS [1.6]
Order of play (Sequencing). If more than one player wants to use an effect at the same time, the ABC rule is used: Acting/active player goes first, then Blocking/defending player, then others Clockwise from the acting player. [1.6.1.5]



Second question

2 Does Undead Persistence prevent the vampire from going to torpor by playing this card at the strike resolution, regardless the vampire being acting or blocking?


This I'm not 100% sure. As seen above, there is an order for playing cards, but the wording on the cards is slightly different (because no quality control ruleswise I guess). Decapitate says: "is going to torpor", persistence says "should go to torpor". I am not sure if this is the same window.

Assuming they would be played in the same window, and active player plays decapitate, I think that undead persistence would no longer be playable, because the vampire is burning instead of going to torpor? VTES does not have "response" like Magic does, the order of play matters a great deal more in these matters. Also I've learned that you cannot "stack" replacements.

"If a man wanders into a tiger's domain, it may result in his being devoured.
And so it has."
-- Pisha, VtM:B

Last edit: 15 Jan 2020 20:06 by Bloodartist.
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15 Jan 2020 21:37 - 15 Jan 2020 21:38 #98608 by Ankha
Since the timings are the same ("when the vampire would go to torpor"), the acting minion gets the first chance to play whichever one is his. Either one will preclude the opposing minion from playing his.

www.vekn.net/history-of-vtes-rules/445-rules-team-rulings-11-july-2001

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Last edit: 15 Jan 2020 21:38 by Ankha.
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15 Jan 2020 22:02 #98610 by beslin igor

Ankha wrote: Since the timings are the same ("when the vampire would go to torpor"), the acting minion gets the first chance to play whichever one is his. Either one will preclude the opposing minion from playing his.

www.vekn.net/history-of-vtes-rules/445-rules-team-rulings-11-july-2001


Ankha I will use one example(can be from practice game)
A inflict 5 damage on B. B have only 1 blood. first A solve his damage(as acting),B get impulse,him will burn this blood and after play Undead Persistence,without give impulse to A,all players play on this way,I beleive you also have some experience with Undead Persistence. I must say long time dint see this card.
What you say on this?
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