question-circle Undead Persistence vs Amaranth and Decapitate

15 Jan 2020 23:12 - 15 Jan 2020 23:14 #98611 by jamesatzephyr

beslin igor wrote: Ankha I will use one example(can be from practice game)
A inflict 5 damage on B. B have only 1 blood. first A solve his damage(as acting),B get impulse,him will burn this blood and after play Undead Persistence,without give impulse to A


The effects of the strikes are resolved simultaneously, not sequentially. The unprevented damage, and any subsequent going to torpor from excess damage, happens at the same time for both players.

And player B can't choose not to give the impulse back - that's not how sequencing works. In any timing window, the acting player always has the first opportunity to use an effect. Another player can't choose to not give the impulse back to the acting player - it was theirs to start with. Once anyone does anything, the impulse goes back to the acting player. See 1.6.1.5:

If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect.

If the acting Methuselah wants to play something first during the "would go to torpor" timing window, they automatically can.

Similarly, in an entirely separate situation, we're pre-range in combat.

Me (acting): No pre-range from me.
You have two cards you want to play, Carrion Crows and Drawing Out the Beast.
You (opposing): I play Carrion Crows.
The impulse returns to me as the acting player. You cannot 'keep' the impulse.
Me (acting): Holy crap, I wasn't expecting you to hit me in this combat. Hmm. I play Terror Frenzy at superior, to increase the cost of your cards.
You (opposing): Damn, I can't play Drawing out the Beast now, as I'm on zero blood.

Because the impulse always returns to the acting player, you can't force through both cards at the same time.
Last edit: 15 Jan 2020 23:14 by jamesatzephyr.
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16 Jan 2020 18:23 #98620 by Dante1991
If Player A plays Undead Persistence and Player B plays Amaranth, will the wounded vampire burn?

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16 Jan 2020 21:15 #98621 by jamesatzephyr

Dante1991 wrote: If Player A plays Undead Persistence and Player B plays Amaranth, will the wounded vampire burn?


As Ankha said in www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78332-undead-persistence-vs-amaranth-and-decapitate?start=0#98608 , either one precludes the other.

When player A plays Undead Persistence, their vampire stops going to torpor. When player B wants to play Amaranth immediately afterwards, player A's vampire is not going to torpor.

When combat ends, player A's vampire goes to torpor after combat. You can't play Amaranth outside combat.
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16 Jan 2020 22:57 #98622 by Dante1991
Does it mean that Amaranth doesn't work against a vampire under the effect of Undead Persistence at all?

Neither Decapitate?

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16 Jan 2020 23:04 #98623 by jamesatzephyr

Dante1991 wrote: Does it mean that Amaranth doesn't work against a vampire under the effect of Undead Persistence at all?

Neither Decapitate?


You can only play those when the vampire should be going to torpor - you then leap in and either diablerize them or burn them.

A vampire who is protected by Undead Persistence is not going to torpor, and can't go to torpor until combat ends (after combat). So the criteria for Amaranth and Decapitate aren't met, and so they can't be played.
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