file Stealing storage annex

25 Jun 2020 16:38 #100182 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Stealing storage annex

Kilrauko wrote: I think we should stick to the original design as much as possible unless it is somehow harmful to the game. I do not think that is the case here.

Putting non-owned cards into your hand is harmful to the game and game state.

If the concern is ash heap digging, removed from play is another option.
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25 Jun 2020 17:14 #100183 by Kilrauko
Replied by Kilrauko on topic Stealing storage annex

kschaefer wrote: Putting non-owned cards into your hand is harmful to the game and game state.

If the concern is ash heap digging, removed from play is another option.


Yes, we are agreed that any possibility for players to mix card ownership is bad. I hopefully highlighted enough reasons with those questions to ensure there is no change that results in non-owned cards being placed to hand or library or asheap as it opens the doors to can of worms related to physical property ownership due to the physical form those stacks take. With "placed on table" the owner can follow their card in a fashion that is lost elsewhere. For example the earlier mentioned Agaitas seems dangerous with hand suffle mechanics, but only if the players do not follow Agaitas "Put the card drawn face-up in front of you." portion and instead place it directly to their hand and then shuffle their hand to the deck. In a sense that action is similar to player taking cards from another player as the game ends and shuffling them to their deck. There's no game mechanic that enables it, only player error. That can never be designed out.

The removal instead of burn as a proposed fix has it's own caveats of changing how the card behaves. Removing from play on controller change prevents the previous controller (and the card that's placed in SA's owner) gaining access to it if the current SA controlled chooses to use the ability due to whatever reason. Or if the location is burned via some other effect. Currently the card in SA would return to the owner's hand and then they could choose to discard some other card instead to return back to their normal hand size. Timely return of a Wake, Delaying Tactics, Deflection or DI/Sudden etc. in preparation can change the VP situation drastically. Removal from game on control change removes possibility for such interaction and negotations related to it. In the same fashion as burn prevents reverse "card in hostage" situation.

But how many of such interactions actually happen and does it even matter if they do? I'm glad I'm not the one who has to draw the line between the easy to read and understand card text and whether or not some interaction is worth keeping in just because it existed before and might be epic in the future. I know I would argue even one case is enough, but at the same time that's my viewpoint talking and if the card is causing real trouble, perhaps those sacrifices in nuances need to be made.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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