New Blog - Gaming with BS

2wayspeaker wrote:

the combat deck needs...

Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.

Main philosophy of VtES is to kill your prey faster than your predator kills you. Rush combat ruins it completely - it attacks it's predator making him in a position of defence against two opponents (unvinnable), at the same time making it's prey play without predator.

And when the predator-prey relationship is ruined the game completely falls apart - instead of playing it you have to partisipate in the degraded diplomasy discussion about cross-table resque, just sitting with no ready vampires for two hours, kingmaking for the lulz e.t.s.

And this is the staff which makes players to abandon the game.

elotar wrote:

Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.

Combat focussed decks (rush) are actually what adds an unique dimension to the game, without it VTES would've probably died out a decade ago... Playing game after game with just bleed and vote gets stale really fast, the disruptive nature of combat decks really creates mind twisters and cross table politics more than any other kind of deck, IF played exceptionally well.

The bad side of combat decks, when not played exceptionally, is it's mostly slow ousting power making it a painful experience for the player receiving the savagery, with the rest of the table simply not caring since it will be a while before the combat deck reaches them.

Add more ousting power to combat focussed decks would make the whole table rear into action not really to safe the poor sod in direct line of fire, but to safe their own hides since now the brute will be within striking distance if not contained. It would actually make the game a lot more interactive...

I purposely make a distinction between playing exceptionally well and not playing exceptionally well, since with current options the skill level required to play a combat deck and win is a lot higher than with an average bleed or vote deck. Opposing a combat deck hurts when you didn't account for it, but not many players actually carry it through and win...

My best games with combat decks where not the ones where my decks totally ravaged the table, my best games with combat decks where the games where I made the most deals... And I have to make a lot less deals with vote or bleed decks. Being a pacifist with a combat deck is usually the best strategy, unless you have a player at the table that knows your power is gone after a handful of combats and makes better deals...

Don't get me wrong, combat rush decks ARE powerful, but only a few strategies last long enough to actually be able to win with without making victims suffer too long, the rest are just a sheer nuisance. So if it's not celerity guns or animalism combat, it probably needs some help. Seems to me like a daunting but interesting task.

elotar wrote:

2wayspeaker wrote:

the combat deck needs...

Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.

O_o

GreyB wrote:

Playing game after game with just bleed and vote

No rush combat doesn't meen just bleed and vote.

Generally your text shows lack of understanding of the game in your group.

Playing with rush combat is simple - if you are his prey just don't bring out minions, if you are his predator deal as much pool damage as you could and then transfer out. Crappy dealing with combat aka "fooling bad players" works only if there are bad players and is totally not fun.

You can make rush part of some adequate strategy, like in eurobrujas, weenies bleeding for 2 with deep song e t.s, but it's, as was said already, already works just fine.

elotar wrote:

Generally your text shows lack of understanding of the game in your group.

I'll be sure to mention it to my group(s), they'll have a few giggles I wager

elotar wrote:

Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.

Just repeating this sentence since it's such a gem of a statement.

GreyB wrote:

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

elotar wrote:

GreyB wrote:

...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

I googled "people who always reply with insults to feel superior wiki"

www.google.nl/search?q=people+who+always+reply+with+insults+to+feel+superior&oq=people+who+always+reply+with+insults+to+feel+superior&aqs=chrome..69i57.8886j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=91&ie=UTF-8#q=people+who+always+reply+with+insults+to+feel+superior+wiki

Yup, nr. 1 on the search results

Ankha wrote:

2wayspeaker wrote:

Aha, and why?

Card efficiency: Enkidu has a rush and a torn signpost built in.

Card efficiency: Nana and Nangila give you a hand size of 9, a rush and a master phase.

Nothing new here: combat decks are better with vampires that have a special related to combat.
It's the same for political decks too, it's easier to use titled vampires.

I don't agree with this at all, Vincent.
It is the same as saying "Commercial Jets need their engines working to travel. Nothing new there. Cars do as well".
If one's engine stops mid-travel, I think the airplane's failure is more catastrophic.

Combat as a strategy is farther from the win condition of the game than politics and bleed.
If any of these 3 strategies are working well and unopposed in a table by themselves, politics and bleed are winning.
That is not the case necessarily with combat.

Why to people put Beast in EuroBrujah?
Why was Fatima or Tariq the only viable real Assamite combat decks (on a supposed combat clan!)?

Combat needs that card effectiveness much more than the other archetypes.
Because it is farther from the win condition.
Because it creates craters in the place of players, but not necessarily wins VPs (for the player doing the craters).

Combat does not have enough winning rewards.
This is a system issue, not clan or disciplines. So clan or discipline cards will not solve the problem.

GreyB wrote:

I googled "people who always reply with insults to feel superior wiki"

Yea, I've already understand that you got nothing meaningful to say.

Brum wrote:

Combat needs that card effectiveness much more than the other archetypes.
Because it is farther from the win condition.

Hunting needs that card effectiveness much more than the other archetypes.
Because it is farther from the win condition.



Combat is not a strategy in VtES, it just a mean to other, real winning strategies, like bleeding, voting or ... Smiling Jacking