file New Blog - Gaming with BS

02 Mar 2016 22:56 #75680 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic New Blog - Gaming with BS

Rush combat isn't viable because of the incredible hand jam you suffer and you are being met with *Cancel combat *SCE *Prevention *Something that hits harder.

That's a bit of a shortcut. Enkidu does win games. Weenie animalism rush also.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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02 Mar 2016 23:41 #75682 by 2wayspeaker
Aha, and why?

Card efficiency: Enkidu has a rush and a torn signpost built in.

Card efficiency: Nana and Nangila give you a hand size of 9, a rush and a master phase.

If you play a combat deck that is absolutely vital. Nana wouldn't win without ashur, even with a hand size of 9 the permanents need to be put in play before the deck can refocus on combat.

Vtes (and especially combat decks) need to be able to run smoother decks. While the opponent relies on that single get out of jail free card with some maneuvers, the combat deck needs things like drawing out, terror frenzy, tracking, psyche in addition to the 4-5-6 combat cards they need to play in sequence.

Meanwhile deep song is bleed 2 or rush (aka 2 different effects on a single card) deep song is a combo card in my book.

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03 Mar 2016 07:22 #75686 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic New Blog - Gaming with BS

Aha, and why?

Card efficiency: Enkidu has a rush and a torn signpost built in.

Card efficiency: Nana and Nangila give you a hand size of 9, a rush and a master phase.

Nothing new here: combat decks are better with vampires that have a special related to combat.
It's the same for political decks too, it's easier to use titled vampires.

Prince of Paris, France
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03 Mar 2016 10:58 #75688 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic New Blog - Gaming with BS

I see each clan and their unique set of normal clan disciplines as representing something akin to a color in magic...


Yea, you are totally right in defining the root cause of our dissagriment. You're trying to compare clans to mtg colors and using borrowed color wheel philosophy make some conclusions about VtES.

And in this you are totally wrong. Just because there are really nothing common in this two elements from two different games.

By the way in most of the MTG history green was a "color to lose" and the game was still quite fine (I even would say much better than the present state).

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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03 Mar 2016 11:22 #75689 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic New Blog - Gaming with BS

the combat deck needs...


Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.

Main philosophy of VtES is to kill your prey faster than your predator kills you. Rush combat ruins it completely - it attacks it's predator making him in a position of defence against two opponents (unvinnable), at the same time making it's prey play without predator.

And when the predator-prey relationship is ruined the game completely falls apart - instead of playing it you have to partisipate in the degraded diplomasy discussion about cross-table resque, just sitting with no ready vampires for two hours, kingmaking for the lulz e.t.s.

And this is the staff which makes players to abandon the game.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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03 Mar 2016 19:50 - 03 Mar 2016 19:53 #75701 by GreyB
Replied by GreyB on topic New Blog - Gaming with BS

Rush combat strategy must not be viable at all - it's bad for the game.


Combat focussed decks (rush) are actually what adds an unique dimension to the game, without it VTES would've probably died out a decade ago... Playing game after game with just bleed and vote gets stale really fast, the disruptive nature of combat decks really creates mind twisters and cross table politics more than any other kind of deck, IF played exceptionally well.

The bad side of combat decks, when not played exceptionally, is it's mostly slow ousting power making it a painful experience for the player receiving the savagery, with the rest of the table simply not caring since it will be a while before the combat deck reaches them.

Add more ousting power to combat focussed decks would make the whole table rear into action not really to safe the poor sod in direct line of fire, but to safe their own hides since now the brute will be within striking distance if not contained. It would actually make the game a lot more interactive...

I purposely make a distinction between playing exceptionally well and not playing exceptionally well, since with current options the skill level required to play a combat deck and win is a lot higher than with an average bleed or vote deck. Opposing a combat deck hurts when you didn't account for it, but not many players actually carry it through and win...

My best games with combat decks where not the ones where my decks totally ravaged the table, my best games with combat decks where the games where I made the most deals... And I have to make a lot less deals with vote or bleed decks. Being a pacifist with a combat deck is usually the best strategy, unless you have a player at the table that knows your power is gone after a handful of combats and makes better deals...

Don't get me wrong, combat rush decks ARE powerful, but only a few strategies last long enough to actually be able to win with without making victims suffer too long, the rest are just a sheer nuisance. So if it's not celerity guns or animalism combat, it probably needs some help. Seems to me like a daunting but interesting task.

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 03 Mar 2016 19:53 by GreyB.

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