Will Lilith´s Blessing return?

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Azel wrote:

Honestly, you'd be better off with errata on "de facto banned" cards that already have had huge print runs. There's plenty of low tier cards that could use the elevation to playable status. And it'd be a far easier and far better use of the community's creativity than flaming out on some overpowered nonsense (especially hard-to-get promotional nonsense) that needed to be cut out of the card pool.

Please bear in mind that there are a non-trivial number of players who like to play with the cards they've got, with minimal errata. (Me, I don't mind errata at all - but I understand where they're coming from.) Even when the cards are extremely powerful, borderline broken, there are players who'd rather soldier on than rewrite them.

Meh, the game for all intents and purposes is dead, especially as Printable Legal Fan Sets are considered the tombstone standard for living games among the tourney scene. Errata can do no real harm anymore at this point. I know the play base is stultifyingly calcified in their own ways, but the big one has been dropped so that excuse doesn't fly much with me anymore.

So, sure, pump out more fandom cards that expand on barely tapped ideas. What's the worse it can do? The game has already seen enough text migration, card stock and appearance shift, let alone errata to knock that complaint to hell and back. And with the game's current living state now cap stoned with THE death knell, to fret at this point over dredging up actually legal printed cards with errata is... adorable.

But whatever, we agree it's no biggie. There'll always be people who cannot handle things.

Azel wrote:

jamesatzephyr wrote:

[Please bear in mind that there are a non-trivial number of players who like to play with the cards they've got, with minimal errata. (Me, I don't mind errata at all - but I understand where they're coming from.) Even when the cards are extremely powerful, borderline broken, there are players who'd rather soldier on than rewrite them.

Meh, the game for all intents and purposes is dead,

Hence the reference to 6/23 and 7/7, which also happened when the game was dead.

There was briefly a small window in which it looked like WotC might do a bizarre joint release for Netrunner, Spellfire and V:TES, releasing maybe 20-50 new cards for each game, to fill obvious holes. But little to no chance of reprints. No-one wanted to take the game over - the hope that, in particular, FRPG might take it over was nixed when FRPG was itself taken over by WotC, and it turned out the Ryan Dancey thought that a game depicting vampires was intrinsically evil, but their game depicting ritual suicide was just dandy. The White Wolf takeover came out of nowhere and - given their history with Rage (some idiotic mechanics holes and power issues) and Arcadia (an utterly rancid game, devoid of merit) - was greeted with some scepticism.

And there were fan-created cards with quite a lot of playtesting (e.g. www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~justinf/jyhad/ ) and everything else too.


And still, quite a lot of people wanted to be able to let a friend leaf through their card set, put a deck together, and not have to remember dozens of errata. And some players wanted to play casual games with players who used to play, and not have to tell them "Oh, by the way, everything you knew about the game? Totally changed, because..."

Azel wrote:

Meh, the game for all intents and purposes is dead, especially as Printable Legal Fan Sets are considered the tombstone standard for living games among the tourney scene.

Sour grapes, eh?

Do recall that VEKN is NOT a bunch of fans it is THE Official VTES Player Organization.

Lönkka wrote:

Sour grapes, eh?

Do recall that VEKN is NOT a bunch of fans it is THE Official VTES Player Organization.

How do you define "official"? Does VEKN have the support and backing of the legal owners of the game? That is what I would define as "official".

No, VEKN is not a bunch of fans: it is a select group of fans. I understand VEKN to function on fan support. VTES players want an authority to manage the still-active aspects of the game, and they allow VEKN to do that.

I don't think what Azel wrote is necessarily derogatory - it is simply the truth. DM is a fan set. It's just a fan set that enjoys much popular support from many fans because the fans support VEKN.

However, if VEKN has the real backing of the owners of the game, than what I've written isn't true; maybe the relationship is different or more formal than I understand it to be.

@AaronC:
VEKN was created with the help/permission of White Wolf. So its inception was official. No other group has stepped up, made a claim to White Wolf and gained approval as a player organisation.

So yeah, it's about as official as it gets.

DM might be considered a "fan set" but it went through a systematic design and playtest process. We should potentially also view this 'down time' as a chance to overhaul a number of things about the game. We may be able to use this time as a space to rebuild the early sets (Jyhad, DS, Sabbat) and set things up for a better future.

Even if a single corporation doesn't take over VTES from WW/CCP, it doesn't mean that VTES is dead...

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

DM might be considered a "fan set" but it went through a systematic design and playtest process. We should potentially also view this 'down time' as a chance to overhaul a number of things about the game. We may be able to use this time as a space to rebuild the early sets (Jyhad, DS, Sabbat) and set things up for a better future.

Even if a single corporation doesn't take over VTES from WW/CCP, it doesn't mean that VTES is dead...

I guess "fan set" has a really negative connotation. I don't think that DM is bad quality because it was made by non-employees of WW/CCP, just as I don't think that "official" cards have necessarily been of good quality. DM seems quite nice, actually. However, there are other fan sets that have also been systematically designed and platested. The fact that they weren't created by VEKN or WW doesn't really say anything about their quality, just more about their chance for public acceptance.

I am on the bandwagon to revisit some previous materials. I'd love to share ideas with you. The fan base wants changes to come from something they see as "official" though. Thus changes require politicking.