Balancing Ashur Tablets

Jeff wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Plainly, they are looking into stuff. Constantly. Its Pascals call, and hes a very thout out decision maker on thwse. Blaming "current administration" here works less well than even normal. Pascal is this vague and malevalent "them" and its freakin Pascal, so hes incredibly nice and tactical about rules decisions.

I have said many times that Pascal is one of the hardest working members of the Inner Circle. (And lately Gines, who I'm sure spends more time getting art together than designers spend mulling over cards.) If the decision were solely up to him, I think he'd make the right one. But there are other pressures that will block any decision to ban cards that people have bought out of packs. Those are things beyond Pascal's control.

Interesting. So you think that things haven't changed because people didn't want them to change?
What if I don't want them to change, but they want?

It doesn't matter anyways - Ashur's Tablet's cardtext is what it is.
I do have ideas on what to change on them.

One of those I particularly like is:

"Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool, and select randomly up to 13 cards from your ash heap. Show the chosen cards to all players, move one to your hand, and shuffle the others into your library."

Pascal wrote:

Interesting. So you think that things haven't changed because people didn't want them to change?
What if I don't want them to change, but they want?

My initial response was specific to AaronC's suggestion to ban Ashur Tablets. I don't think that any card bought from a pack will be banned. It's untenable and unconscionable.

And because of that, any discussion about banning cards has been rendered moot. Maybe there's room for a change or errata, and I have full confidence that you would make a good decision, but in my opinion, I don't see it for this particular card.

I've already made my decision over Ashur Tablets.
And over many other cards.

My decision is: As long as we can't have reprints, we'll stick to whatever unbroken text we have.
For broken texts, we have two options: either ban the card (see Lilith's Blessing), or change the text (see Villein).

I have taken a decision on Ashur Tablets 2 years ago.

Pascal wrote:

I've already made my decision over Ashur Tablets.
And over many other cards.

My decision is: As long as we can't have reprints, we'll stick to whatever unbroken text we have.
For broken texts, we have two options: either ban the card (see Lilith's Blessing), or change the text (see Villein).

I have taken a decision on Ashur Tablets 2 years ago.

Thank you for that answer Pascal.

Here's hoping, then, that there will be reprints, and that when there are you will consider errating a bit this card to make it less "necessary".

Orpheus wrote:

Thank you for that answer Pascal.

Here's hoping, then, that there will be reprints, and that when there are you will consider errating a bit this card to make it less "necessary".

What do you think of the proposition above?

@PB:
Revealing the cards is unecessary, they are all "known" because of the rules on ash heaps. Fine with it being random cards and not chosen cards, it's better than before. It would be good to hear what Darby and ICL would suggest about both of those.

I don't think they should give pool. Card recycling is powerful enough.


It depends on the purpose you want them to play in the game PB... are they to help combat wall decks, combat rush decks, Bleed & Bash... that will help restrict the cardset Ashur Tablets can recur into the library.

@Ankha: As shown by TWDA stats... Liquidation rarely sees play outside an Ashur Tablets deck because you gain for the Liquidation, remove the 'price' of Liquidation later AND get 3 extra pool for removing the 'price' you paid for Liquidation. Those that do play Liquidation and not Ashurs do so to put cards into the ashheap to be converted to other things (i.e. Shambler Decks).

"Put this card in play. If you have three copies in play, remove all copies in play (even controlled by other Methuselahs) from the game to gain 3 pool, and select randomly up to 13 cards from your ash heap. Show the chosen cards to all players, move one to your hand, and shuffle the others into your library."

Pascal wrote:

What do you think of the proposition above?

I think it's great.

Pascal wrote:

Orpheus wrote:

Thank you for that answer Pascal.

Here's hoping, then, that there will be reprints, and that when there are you will consider errating a bit this card to make it less "necessary".

What do you think of the proposition above?

The problem is that it breaks a BIG part of the utility of Ashur Tablets.

I know you hate the time loss generated by Ashur Tablets, but I would be more into a silver bullet-card (As Fragment of Ashur Tablets) than an errata.

I've played them several times myself and I'm really fast choosing the cards (I know my decks from A to Z) and I think we should be aiming that people don't lose time during the games...

Anyway, that would break all the Liquidation + Ashur Tablets decks, and this is a personal point of view, but I don't consider them broken, it's just a matter of knowing how to oust them. You have to consider that it would also break several decks using Ashur Tablets and that aren't abusing of the combo, for example my last TWD:
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?deck=view&id=16435

Ashur Tablets, no Liquidation and need to take the precise cards. If not I guess it won't work at all as expected. Played by myself and other players in different games/tournaments and I can guarantee it's solid, but not broken at all (and it's a MMPA-deck).

I think that changing ashurs to get back cards on random is not a good idea. It would make it a weak card, in most cases unworthy of putting into deck. IMO we should think about the errata that would make it a little weaker, but still good. Don't forget that this card alone is great enabler for many decks that were not existent before ashurs. Such little tweaks could be:
- remove giving pool
- remove option of taking one of the cards to your hand
- make it possible to play only one ashur per turn
- make it possible to take back only minion cards
- reduce number of cards that can be put back into the deck f.e. to the 7 cards
- ban anthelios