Enkidu gets some help from the Spirts

Pullen wrote:

Well I kinda threw this together and didn't really think it all the way threw,I can use most of the out-ferior's on the cards,

The outferior effects are so terrible that you really don't want to be playing them at all, let alone with an 11-cap vampire.

Pullen wrote:

but yeah, 2-3 more Feral Spirit might be a good idea.

My suggestion is actually to reduce both the number of Feral Spirits and Spiritus cards (the latter by 90-95%) rather than trying to increase the number of enablers. The reason for this is that Enkidu will only ever be able to play the Spiritus cards at basic, and at basic, they're basically nothing more than drastically less efficient versions of the cards that he can already play with his starting disciplines.

Pullen wrote:

I'm thinking of dropping the Ashur's for 2 Feral Spirit's and 2 Heidelberg. The other card slots going to combat, but I'm not sure about dropping them.

I think you would be much better served by using those card slots to instead increase your ousting capability. Enkidu doesn't need to devote a lot of library space to being good at smashing minions, but smashing minions alone doesn't win games.

Pullen wrote:

First, don't worry about being a jerk, I said rip it apart for a reason. Second, I said it was a "dumb idea" because every time I see Feral Spirit, I want to build this deck, that and theirs a player in my play group who has a bit of a hate-on for Enkidu, so I wanted to build something he hasn't seen yet.

I don't think that making another "I'll kill all your guys but then fail to oust you" deck is going to revise this other player's opinion of Enkidu in a positive way.

Pullen wrote:

I already explained why I want to, but to elaborate, I like build decks that will be a challenge to play as well as fun to play, when I turn the big bad ass dragon into a girl, people at the table will wonder what the hell I'm doing, this works in my favor.

If surprise factor is what you're looking for, you need to include surprises which will be impactful. No one will expect an Enkidu deck to play Dia de Los Muertos and Reins of Power, for example, and that's a quick loss of five pool from a vector that your prey isn't going to see coming. Changing Enkidu into an Ahrimane in order to play cards that say +1 instead of +2 will be a surprise for other players, but not one that benefits you at all.

Mephistopheles wrote:

Maybe the reason you deck all the time is that you are throwing away resources without doing any real harm. I went through your deck again. You totally lack ousting power. You have a guy who can perm rush so I would say play at least two copies of Fame. Then you have intercept and sufficient wake cards to keep the vampires down in torpor so Dragonbound seems like a must have. Because you can block and hit vampires into torpor you might be more than able to defend a Smiling Jack.

Try this: -7 Ashur, + 2 Fame, + 1 Dragonbound, + 2 Smiling Jack + 2 Sudden or Wash to defend against a Pentex.

I don't disagree with anything here, in fact alot of my other Enkidue deck have this stuff, I want something else, something that not the same old crap you see from a prema-rush deck. Also did you look at the new version with a bunch of stealth and bleed boost.

Mephistopheles wrote:

This way you will just do more harm. Faster vp's means you need less cards. Give it a try.

I have, it dosn't fit my play stile. Doing more harm can be nice, but often has more foils, I prefer slow and steady progression towards ousting. Making ones' self a target means getting ousted in my experience.

Kushiel wrote:

My suggestion is actually to reduce both the number of Feral Spirits and Spiritus cards (the latter by 90-95%) rather than trying to increase the number of enablers. The reason for this is that Enkidu will only ever be able to play the Spiritus cards at basic, and at basic, they're basically nothing more than drastically less efficient versions of the cards that he can already play with his starting disciplines.

That's why I'm running Visionquest to give him . Now its is a lot of crap to give him and his support , but is't a very strong discipline.

Pullen wrote:

I'm thinking of dropping the Ashur's for 2 Feral Spirit's and 2 Heidelberg. The other card slots going to combat, but I'm not sure about dropping them.

Kushiel wrote:

I think you would be much better served by using those card slots to instead increase your ousting capability. Enkidu doesn't need to devote a lot of library space to being good at smashing minions, but smashing minions alone doesn't win games.

(Point's to the second deck posted.)

Pullen wrote:

First, don't worry about being a jerk, I said rip it apart for a reason. Second, I said it was a "dumb idea" because every time I see Feral Spirit, I want to build this deck, that and theirs a player in my play group who has a bit of a hate-on for Enkidu, so I wanted to build something he hasn't seen yet.

Kushiel wrote:

I don't think that making another "I'll kill all your guys but then fail to oust you" deck is going to revise this other player's opinion of Enkidu in a positive way.

He's a good friend and one of the best players in the world, I don't think I will hurt his delicate sensibilities.

Pullen wrote:

I already explained why I want to, but to elaborate, I like build decks that will be a challenge to play as well as fun to play, when I turn the big bad ass dragon into a girl, people at the table will wonder what the hell I'm doing, this works in my favor.

Kushiel wrote:

If surprise factor is what you're looking for, you need to include surprises which will be impactful. No one will expect an Enkidu deck to play Dia de Los Muertos and Reins of Power, for example, and that's a quick loss of five pool from a vector that your prey isn't going to see coming. Changing Enkidu into an Ahrimane in order to play cards that say +1 instead of +2 will be a surprise for other players, but not one that benefits you at all.

Yeah, hence the new version is more or less stealth bleed. And Enkidu the Regent love's him self some Reins of Power.

Pullen wrote:

That's why I'm running Visionquest to give him . Now its is a lot of crap to give him and his support , but is't a very strong discipline.

Spiritus is good. But what's it give Enkidu that he can't do already?

Stealth? Obfuscate is better, and he's got it at superior.
Maneuver/press? Celerity is better, and he's got it at superior.
Blocking? Animalism is just about as good, and since Enkidu has a built-in Raven Spy enabler and you don't want a card-intensive intercept package if you don't need one, I'd say that they about even out in the Noah's case.
Agg hands and S:CE? Protean is better, and he's got it at superior.

This is what I meant before: I'm not seeing what Spiritus does for him that he can't already do anyway. I mean, it's fine that you want to make a funny deck that turns a kaiju into a catgirl, but then giving advice on how to make it better is really difficult, since you don't want to budge on the self-hamstringing that's the deck's biggest weakness.

Pullen wrote:

(Point's to the second deck posted.)

5x Deep Song
3x Dream World
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Tasha Morgan

It's not exactly an overwhelming pile of ousting tech, especially out of 90 cards.

I'll stop commenting in the thread after this to avoid threadcrapping; trying to turn a hypercostly/hyperspecialized minion like Enkidu into something he's not just strikes me as too much work.

Pullen wrote:

He's a good friend and one of the best players in the world, I don't think I will hurt his delicate sensibilities.

Okay...? Not sure what that has to do with him changing his mind about Enkidu. My point was simply that "Enkidu smashes your guys...with Spiritus!" isn't different enough from "Enkidu smashes your guys" for him to be likely to change his mind. Now that the deck is very different, I agree that he's unlikely to complain about Enkidu smashing his guys.

Kushiel wrote:

I'll stop commenting in the thread after this to avoid threadcrapping; trying to turn a hypercostly/hyperspecialized minion like Enkidu into something he's not just strikes me as too much work.

Hmm, maybe I should post this from now on for decks like this, but making a deck out of big vamps that does something odd or off the wall into something competitive is what I do (and it doesn't always work). But your points are perfectly valid.

90 card decks with Ashur Tablets:
thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011lvqual
thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2011wp13bp
thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2010tjindar
thelasombra.com/decks/twd.htm#2010mglq

The issue isn't the size but how you use it, but I suspect you've heard that before.