Lasombra anarchs

KevinM wrote:

Really? I thought it used a 3-card combo, all of which happend before s:ce is played?

Only Arms of the Abyss happens before a s:ce is played.

And later on, you say your metagame has no s:ce. I'm confused.

Not sure how that is confusing. Whether or not their metagame features s:ce or not, Entombment as an additional strike and Hell-for-leather for torporing the opposing vampire are both played after the opponent has played their s:ce (unless it's done as an additional strike, but that's extremely marginal).

Lemminkäinen wrote:

KevinM wrote:

relying on a multi-card combo (your three cards from above),

It can work with just Entombment and Fame, too.

And that, too, is defeated by a single s:ce card.

So? Doesn't affect this point one whit.

I never said it was unplayable. Play it, if you like. Have you ever tasted the Tears of Unfathomable Sadness?

I know I've enjoyed playing and even had table wins with far jankier decks than the one presented in the OP.

I'd like some Tears Of Unfathomable Sadness in my Cup Of Absolute Joy.....

I absolutely support guys, who try to make enjoyable decks without aming for the new hyperdeck. If it gives you a good time playing it, I don't care if it's able to win the next European Championship.

My shot at this theme was in 2008 this piece. Some new cards could make the deck better.


Deck Name: Lucita leeds the Anarchy
Created By: Joscha Düll
Description: Anarch tech starring Lucita.


Crypt: (13 cards, Min: 6, Max: 30, Avg: 4,61)
1 Hester Reed obt pot 3 Lasombra
1 Tabitha Fisk obt pot pro 4 Lasombra
1 Ignacio dom obt pot 4 Lasombra
1 Dr. Julius Sutphen (ADV) dom obt POT 5 Lasombra stealth-spec.
1 Banjoko obt pot DOM 5 Lasombra
2 Aurora Van Brande dom for pot OBT 6 Lasombra
3 Lucita cel pot DOM FOR OBT 8 Lasombra
4 Anarch Convert 1 Caitiff

Library: (75 cards)

Master (13 cards)
1 Anarch Railroad
2 Anarch Revolt
1 Blood Doll
1 Depravity
1 Elysian Fields
2 Fame
1 Haven Uncovered
1 Tension in the Ranks
2 Blood Doll
1 Wash

Action (13 cards)
2 Black Metamorphosis
1 Preternatural Strength
1 Graverobbing
1 Smash and Grab
5 Bum's Rush
3 Ambush

Action Modifier (5 cards)
5 Freak Drive

Reaction (10 cards)
5 Deflection
2 Delaying Tactics
3 On the Qui Vive

Combat (31 cards)
4 Disarm
6 Hell-for-Leather
6 Immortal Grapple
5 Lam Into
2 Diversion
3 Slam
5 Taste of Vitae

Combo (2 cards)
2 Steely Tenacity

Equipment (1 card)
1 Ivory Bow

Hey Kevin,

Let me clean up some confusion here. I'm not the originator of the deck; that was Steinar. I was just defending it.

I get the impression that some of your comments were made with the assumption that we were the same person; I can understand how that person might appear to have inconsistent points of view.

I don't think every deck can be tier 1. There's room in the game for tiers 2, 3, and maybe even 4. Hell, in a casual metagame a tier 1 deck will often be perceived as the table threat and get ousted early. I don't like to discourage people from playing an entire concept unless it's clearly Tier 5 or less. I mean, fundamentally, people are here saying "I want to play concept X, how do I make that work" - I find saying "play concept Y instead" to be confrontational, unpleasant, and often unproductive.

That said, I do like to prevent Tears of Unfathomable Sadness from entering play, so I generally will recommend tweaks to the deck that don't change it's spirit. For example, here I was recommending the related Arms/Disarm combo, because it's a lot cheaper / more efficient but still works the same way. (Entombment is kinda pricy.)

It's certainly possible to make decks that will flat out never work in this game - decks that don't have any oust potential, or that don't have any defense, or that run lots of red cards with no way to get into combat, or that have 35 masters and only one Parthenon, or that rely on a star merged vampire and don't have enough ways to get it into play, or that are built around Liquefy the Mortal Coil - but this isn't one of those decks. It has a way to oust, it has a way to defend itself, its combo cards are useful on their own, and it plays high-quality cards with a little picture of a chain on them, which can cover a LOT of sins.

Sure, bruise bleed isn't a fantastic archetype. The issues with it are myriad. It flails against bounce. Even without bounce, it lets your opponent choose whether to fight you or to take the bleed, which means that whatever option is worse for you is the one that will show up. But there are times when it works OK - not everyone runs bounce, not everyone runs enough bounce, and some decks only intend to have one, rushable, bouncing minion in play. I'd never recommend it as a pure strategy, but at the same time I'd recommend that any deck with access to DOM and a rush strategy throw in at least a handful of Conditionings to add ousting power.

Archetype isn't an absolute thing, either. I'd bet on a well-built bruise bleed deck with DOM over a Blood Brothers stealth bleed deck, or an City Gangrel wall. (Well, unless there was some BH Ministry tech in there - that might be OK...)

I don't have any idea what Steinar's metagame is like. I can say that mine tends to be combat heavy, prevent heavy, and S:CE light; so much so that I've been seeing very little in the way of Grapples or Psyches lately. Decks I've seen recently: !Ven stick/prevent/bleed, Qawiyya rush/wall, Kiasyd toolbox with Earth Swords, Nos princes with ANI defensive combat, etc. Sure, this metagame has some obvious holes - that's why I'm bringing a 14-Earth-Meld deck next time I play - but it exists. (Not that it helps Steinar, unless he's visiting California from Norway.)

As an acting minion, against an S:CE-only deck, this deck's combat looks like this:
1. Arms of the Abyss at OBT
2. Majesty

or like this:
1. Arms of the Abyss at OBT
2. oops, out of Majesty. flail with hands
1. additional: Entomb
1. (possibly) Hell-for-Leather at obt, booyah!

or maybe like this:
1. Hands for 1
2. Ur, hands for 1?
1. Hell-for-Leather at cel with Lucita, additional: Entomb
2. D'oh!

or even:
1. well, earlier this turn I played Arms and you had a Majesty. Let's see if you still do. Entomb.
2. (possibly) Majesty. (possibly) hands for 1, enter torpor, sad face.

... and, as far as I can see, all of those scenarios involve this deck playing 0-1 cards before the S:CE hits the table.

Oh, and if you're curious: I bought my first Jyhad starter in 1994. I've been playing on and off since then. I wouldn't say I'm an excellent player, but I think I know the game pretty well. I also think this thread would be more productive without ad hominem content.

finbury wrote:

I also think this thread would be more productive without ad hominem content.

I think the thread has been incredibly productive.

And of what ad-hominem do you speak?


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

KevinM wrote:

And of what ad-hominem do you speak?

I was thinking of:

KevinM wrote:

It sounds like you haven't played the game very long.

...that seemed unproductive. Though maybe I was taking it too personally.

I certainly wasted time defending myself against the perceived criticism. And now we've wasted more time going back over it again.