file Fortitude reaction card

17 Oct 2011 07:29 #12122 by Louhi
Replied by Louhi on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card
I must say I really like the idea. Too many people are complaining that it introduces bleed defense to a new discipline and that it's not suitable with existing themes. As long as bleed is as strong as it is that sort of reasoning is just making every deck without dominate or auspex inherently subpar. One might argue other decks work as well but in the end they are still somewhat inferior. So either new defensive cards must be made up, helping the weaker clans, or the balance between bleed/vote/walling/combat and whatnot must change to make other methods better at ousting (and my two cents on that balance is that the only action anyone can do inherently that does pool damage is to bleed for one, it's the most fundamental action in the game). Also worthy of note is that this is not even a bounce, it is merely a defensive move and will not put any pressure on ones own prey.

That being said I wonder how the card could be tweaked. I lean towards the original idea with possibly a few changes. Like some have said having a 2-cap reduce for five on inferior is strong (but it still puts no pressure, bounce is better!). If one really wants to address that I would suggest putting a hard cap on capacity to use, like capacity 5 or above, much like approximation of loyalty. This way slightly bigger vamps are required but won't make it wallpaper against other high caps. I also toyed around with the idea to make the inferior only reduce against a bleed my methuselas other than the predator, i.e an already bounced bleed.

Turned a bit long but I feel it's a card that needs some discussion. It addresses an existing problem very well and it is needed.

Lidingö Scourge

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17 Oct 2011 07:34 - 17 Oct 2011 07:37 #12123 by jtroyve
Replied by jtroyve on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card
i was just thinking about the same theme/idea. what about asking the vampire to take the bleed hit?

Eg.

"Take the Fall"
Combat/Reaction
for: Prevent 1 damage
FOR: Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks have been declined (after all modifiers). Tap this reacting vampire, and reduce the bleed by x, where x is the bleed amount. Cost of this card increases by x Blood.

wording initially was "this vampire takes x damage, where x is the bleed amount"
Last edit: 17 Oct 2011 07:37 by jtroyve.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Erol

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17 Oct 2011 07:39 #12125 by Klaital
Replied by Klaital on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card

The card is fine. But i don't like the fact it requires fortitude. There should be clear differnces between disciplines. Bleed reduction for fortitude just makes no sense. It's like intercept for potence.


Fortitude already has 2 bleed reduction cards. Friend of Mine and Steadfastness.

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17 Oct 2011 07:55 #12128 by alek
Replied by alek on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card
Friend of mine is anarch card and they have some strange effects for their disciplines cards. And steadfastness makes no sense for me as well as the proposed card

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17 Oct 2011 08:14 #12132 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card

i was just thinking about the same theme/idea. what about asking the vampire to take the bleed hit?

Eg.

"Take the Fall"
Combat/Reaction
for: Prevent 1 damage
FOR: Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks have been declined (after all modifiers). Tap this reacting vampire, and reduce the bleed by x, where x is the bleed amount. Cost of this card increases by x Blood.

wording initially was "this vampire takes x damage, where x is the bleed amount"


I prefer a wording that possibly causes the vampire to end in torpor, and that allows excess bleed to carry on.

Name: Take the Fall
Cardtype: Combat/Reaction
Discipline: Fortitude
[for][COMBAT] Prevent 1 damage.
[FOR][REACTION] Only usable when you are being bled, after blocks have been declined. Tap this reacting vampire. For each pool that would be lost to this bleed, this vampire takes 1 damage. Reduce the bleed by X, where X is the amount of damage healed by this vampire.


So basically, during a bleed for 6, a vampire with 4 blood would end in torpor, tapped, and reduce the bleed by 4.

(And a Samedy with Regenerative Blood would reduce twice as much I think, to be confirmed).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtroyve

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17 Oct 2011 09:20 #12133 by jtroyve
Replied by jtroyve on topic Re: Fortitude reaction card
well. that was better worded. :)

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