Spray n Pray (Card Idea)

I actually really dislike the "cancel by ditching cards" mechanic to most of them. T:V feels like it is too large a penalty to cancel it (and means it is always played more than potentially useful cards like T:H)...

So removing the "ditch cards" meant it needed to have a cost. Also you dont' want to be using this thing with a Sawed-Off Shotgun (etc).

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

SPR - Version

Pray n Spray

1 blood
Aim. Play when choosing a gun strike. Only usable on a gun strike by a gun which can be fired multiple times in a single round of combat.
Cancel a maneuver by an opposing minion.
You and the controller of the opposing minion play Scissors-Paper-Rock. If you win, you deal this gun's damage to the minion and any retainers on that minion. If you draw, you strike the opposing minion normally. If you lose, the strike with this gun does no damage.

[img size=400]https://7014330367969587453-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/library-cards/Pray n Spray.jpg[/img]

I would word it as follows:
Pray n Spray

1 blood
Aim. Play when choosing a gun strike. Only usable on a gun strike by a gun which can be fired multiple times in a single round of combat.
Cancel a maneuver by an opposing minion.
Flip a coin, if it comes up tails you deal no damage this strike and this gun can not be used again this combat. Each time it comes up heads, gain an additional strike and flip again.

Myrdin wrote:

I would word it as follows:
Pray n Spray

1 blood
Aim. Play when choosing a gun strike. Only usable on a gun strike by a gun which can be fired multiple times in a single round of combat.
Cancel a maneuver by an opposing minion.
Flip a coin, if it comes up tails you deal no damage this strike and this gun can not be used again this combat. Each time it comes up heads, gain an additional strike and flip again.

That is not very strong. With desert eagle you have 50% chance to deal 2R, 25% chance to deal extra 2R. Average damage you deal with this card is under the guns original damage. If initial strike is automatic and you start flipping with first additional then average damage is about double of the original damage. But I kind of like giving additionals for guns without celerity. Caseless Rounds should had been free.

With every new card idea I would like to hear why card is planned and what is the purpose. My biggest problem with guns is unbalanced magnum compared to other guns so would like to some new cards for that problem.

LunaSlave wrote:

Instead of making it so you can't play aim cards, why not just make it an aim card with "Play when choosing a gun strike?" Aim cards limit you to one anyway, and wording it that way seems more elegant to me.

And instead of a coin flip, why not rock-paper-scissors? It minimizes the equipment involved.

Something like this maybe? If you lose RPS, you hit nobody. If you win RPS, you hit the opposing minion AND all retainers they have with the gun's damage. And if you tie, you only hit the opposing minion. Get rid of the blood cost, keep the reflex part, and let them discard two combat cards to cancel the aim part. There you go - a more interesting card, at least to me

Ok, first of all the point of "Spray n Pray" is that the minion isn't aiming. I understand calling it an aim card for game mechanics, but it doesn't makes sense. It's important that there be a connection from the game mechanic to the concept of the card.

I will illustrate: I thought up a card idea. I haven't posted it yet cause I had some other ideas rolling around to post with it, but I will use it to illustrate my point.

"Scope"

1
Attach this to a gun with an aim card from your hand. The minion with this gun may use the aim card when striking with this gun, as if from your hand. A gun may only have one scope.

It's basically a "Magazine" for aim cards. Now if "Spray n Pray" were an aim card for game mechanic purposes. you could attach it. Unfortunately it's incongruous. It makes no sense. You don't scope in for cover fire or when firing full auto. And a scope shouldn't help a minion in v:tes do just that.

The second thing I would like to address is Rock/Paper/Scissors. I've played the WoD LARP (Live Action Role Playing). I can tell you that playing RPS more than once or twice is not fun. Also, in the past I've played the Sailor Moon card game, which relies on RPS for it's game mechanics. It is not good game design to rely on RPS.

RPS is not "random" enough if that is what you are looking for, it adds unnecessary complications, and human error is prevalent in RPS. ("Is it 1-2-3-Shoot? or do we toss on 3?")

More simple game design would be to have "Spray n Pray" deal damage to retainers, without the element of chance. However the random chance in the coin flip represents the "Pray" part of card name.

direwolf wrote:

Ok, first of all the point of "Spray n Pray" is that the minion isn't aiming. I understand calling it an aim card for game mechanics, but it doesn't makes sense.

There is, the minion is deliberately not aiming (which is an Aim in itself). But we certainly don't want this card played with things like T:V or T:H. I don't mind it being played with cards like Light Intensifying Goggles.

direwolf wrote:

"Scope"

1
Attach this to a gun with an aim card from your hand. The minion with this gun may use the aim card when striking with this gun, as if from your hand. A gun may only have one scope.

So another version of Light Intensifying Goggles?

direwolf wrote:

The second thing I would like to address is Rock/Paper/Scissors. I've played the WoD LARP (Live Action Role Playing). I can tell you that playing RPS more than once or twice is not fun. Also, in the past I've played the Sailor Moon card game, which relies on RPS for it's game mechanics. It is not good game design to rely on RPS.

RPS is not "random" enough if that is what you are looking for, it adds unnecessary complications, and human error is prevalent in RPS. ("Is it 1-2-3-Shoot? or do we toss on 3?")

More simple game design would be to have "Spray n Pray" deal damage to retainers, without the element of chance. However the random chance in the coin flip represents the "Pray" part of card name.

There should be a 'random' event. This is more random than something such as the guessing beads trick used in Malk Prank. It is less random than 50-50 per minion but it is also much faster, especially if there is quite a number of retainers.

I'm sorry, but if you can't simply organise a single game of SPR, then you probably should be shot...

Sorry for insisting on how bad a card is if you can't rely on its effect. Think about how often Walk through Arcadia and Gemini's Mirror see play. IMHO it is, because you can't be sure to get what you want. The effects are both cool, but it's most often very bad if you play a card for nothing, erm, worse, for blood and no effect.
So as much as I like the card idea and the plan to make guns without cel more playable I suggest to let go the random part. Otherwise most people won't play that card.