New Card - Unstoppable Force

Wait wait wait, to have blocker actually blocked and in torpor you have to spend resources on it. You are acting like 'sending someone into torpor is easy task'. It is not. It's most fo times hard and resource intensive and most of all RISKY.

It's not, really.

Torping someone's minion, assuming he plays a deck that can actually win, is often easier than landing a bleed for 3 on the right target.

Unfortunately a LOT of people still think that blowing minions up makes you win even though they are being proven wrong time and time again. Against those (bad) decks, sure torping someone takes some minor effort.

Form of Mist provide you with unconditional dodge at inferior

Unconditional Dodge... wah? Like that's something amazing and special... Do conditional dodges even exist?

and combat end on superior in ANY COMBAT, not just when the minion is acting.

You mean like Majesty, Oubliette, No Trace, Blissfull Agony,.... etc. etc. etc. Heck even dominate has a pseudo combat ends (that actually works when grappled).

It's nearly RISK FREE.

Ye. Until someone plays a Grapple. Or Psyche! Or just rushes again. Or played, like, a 2nd Trad and can just try to block with the same minion again but this time you're SoL because you can't play another FoM.

Also, you can have the blocking minion in torpor and continue the action with form of mist too (with +1 stealth!).

How does that work? Form of Mist is a strike. I can't actually even imagine a situation where you act, you get blocked, you play Form of Must, the opposing guy somehow goes to torpor and you get to continue...

Also, Form of Mist sits on a pretty lackluster disciple, that is in-clan for exactly one clan with disciplines that are not known for ousting people fast.

Shard wrote:

Shard wrote:

Unstoppable Force
2
If the blocking minion not ready after resulting combat, the action continues at -2 stealth.


Cancel a card that cancels the action or combat as it is played

This now seems overcosted - especially since the acting minion has probably expended resources in taking the action and getting the blocker to torpor (at least losing one blood to hitback). I also don't understand what the second part means: what cards "cancel combat" aside from Alpha Glint? Basically, aside from the discipline change - and here I agree that is fine - I don't see what makes this better than the version I posted earlier.

It cancels Obedience and like cards.

Izaak wrote:

Wait wait wait, to have blocker actually blocked and in torpor you have to spend resources on it. You are acting like 'sending someone into torpor is easy task'. It is not. It's most fo times hard and resource intensive and most of all RISKY.

It's not, really.

Torping someone's minion, assuming he plays a deck that can actually win, is often easier than landing a bleed for 3 on the right target.

Unfortunately a LOT of people still think that blowing minions up makes you win even though they are being proven wrong time and time again. Against those (bad) decks, sure torping someone takes some minor effort.

This card wouldn't help those bad decks anyway. It's hard to play at all.

Izaak wrote:

Form of Mist provide you with unconditional dodge at inferior

Unconditional Dodge... wah? Like that's something amazing and special... Do conditional dodges even exist?

Yes, and it's played. Check out OBE/AUS card. Dodge is helpful, it's not s:ce, but with s:ce on superior it's quite versatile (and often better played as dodge, especially if you sport carrion crows or other env. damage.

Izaak wrote:

and combat end on superior in ANY COMBAT, not just when the minion is acting.

You mean like Majesty, Oubliette, No Trace, Blissfull Agony,.... etc. etc. etc. Heck even dominate has a pseudo combat ends (that actually works when grappled).

Does it make it any less powerful ? This card would be played a lot, but have even better s:ce.

Izaak wrote:

It's nearly RISK FREE.

Ye. Until someone plays a Grapple. Or Psyche! Or just rushes again. Or played, like, a 2nd Trad and can just try to block with the same minion again but this time you're SoL because you can't play another FoM.

Like any s:ce. It's not like every deck packs those cards and that they are that strong in every meta.
Lol, you know they can't block you again with second tradition, right ? I don't know where you play, but i want to play there.

Izaak wrote:

Also, you can have the blocking minion in torpor and continue the action with form of mist too (with +1 stealth!).

How does that work? Form of Mist is a strike. I can't actually even imagine a situation where you act, you get blocked, you play Form of Must, the opposing guy somehow goes to torpor and you get to continue...

Also, Form of Mist sits on a pretty lackluster disciple, that is in-clan for exactly one clan with disciplines that are not known for ousting people fast.

Pursuit or any other additional, prevent or even no prevent, form of mist disarm, 3 cards.

This card wouldn't help those bad decks anyway. It's hard to play at all.

Actually... it would. You rush, they throw up a chump blocker, you get to torp 2 guys. Let's make bad decks even better at destroying other people's game and make someone else win!

Yes, and it's played. Check out OBE/AUS card. Dodge is helpful, it's not s:ce, but with s:ce on superior it's quite versatile (and often better played as dodge, especially if you sport carrion crows or other env. damage.

Oh right. Because Anesthetic Touch at outferior is only usable at close and EVERY other dodge card is just "dodge" unconditional dodge is now suddenly an amazing boon. Also, people play Anestethic Touch at auspex? Really?

Does it make it any less powerful ? This card would be played a lot, but have even better s:ce.

If you'd have an argument about Earth Meld you might be on about something remotely reasonable, but really... SC:E and continues on protean? Who cares.. it's been there since Jyhad and Protean isn't exactly ripping up the TWDA is it?

Like any s:ce. It's not like every deck packs those cards and that they are that strong in every meta.

Exactly. Therefore FoM isn't inherently a lot stronger than, say Majesty. In fact, given the context of disciplines Majesty comes with I'd say Majesty is a LOT stronger than FoM, but hey what do I know?

Lol, you know they can't block you again with second tradition, right ? I don't know where you play, but i want to play there.

Ye I'm well aware of that. I originally had "a Wake" there, but then realized you'd pull the 'HAHA +1 STEALTH' card so I changed it to 2nd Trad. My mistake of course.
As for where I play... well, you're welcome to join. I was in Poland a few weeks ago, had a blast.

Pursuit or any other additional, prevent or even no prevent, form of mist disarm, 3 cards.

I see. People actually play silly combo's like that where you play? (Not accounting for the fact that a whole 11 vampires in the entire game have PRO cel pot) Do they win games?

Izaak wrote:

This card wouldn't help those bad decks anyway. It's hard to play at all.

Actually... it would. You rush, they throw up a chump blocker, you get to torp 2 guys. Let's make bad decks even better at destroying other people's game and make someone else win!

Yeah, let them pack in additional cards that increase the combo and make it less consistent! And waste blood too, i am all for it.

Izaak wrote:

Yes, and it's played. Check out OBE/AUS card. Dodge is helpful, it's not s:ce, but with s:ce on superior it's quite versatile (and often better played as dodge, especially if you sport carrion crows or other env. damage.

Oh right. Because Anesthetic Touch at outferior is only usable at close and EVERY other dodge card is just "dodge" unconditional dodge is now suddenly an amazing boon. Also, people play Anestethic Touch at auspex? Really?

Yeah, most often in saulot decks, it's not that bad. Also, there are other dodges with drawbacks, like costing blood or dnr or just in first round.

Izaak wrote:

Does it make it any less powerful ? This card would be played a lot, but have even better s:ce.

If you'd have an argument about Earth Meld you might be on about something remotely reasonable, but really... SC:E and continues on protean? Who cares.. it's been there since Jyhad and Protean isn't exactly ripping up the TWDA is it?

Just 46 decks have it, it's not like it's card that isn't used.

Izaak wrote:

Like any s:ce. It's not like every deck packs those cards and that they are that strong in every meta.

Exactly. Therefore FoM isn't inherently a lot stronger than, say Majesty. In fact, given the context of disciplines Majesty comes with I'd say Majesty is a LOT stronger than FoM, but hey what do I know?

Majesty is also one of the strongest cards in the game, but given that some minions have also ... Back to the form of mist, it is about the power level of majesty, which means it's very good card.

Izaak wrote:

Lol, you know they can't block you again with second tradition, right ? I don't know where you play, but i want to play there.

Ye I'm well aware of that. I originally had "a Wake" there, but then realized you'd pull the 'HAHA +1 STEALTH' card so I changed it to 2nd Trad. My mistake of course.
As for where I play... well, you're welcome to join. I was in Poland a few weeks ago, had a blast.

If i'll be in Netherlands, i'll try to play vtes for sure.

Izaak wrote:

Pursuit or any other additional, prevent or even no prevent, form of mist disarm, 3 cards.

I see. People actually play silly combo's like that where you play? (Not accounting for the fact that a whole 11 vampires in the entire game have PRO cel pot) Do they win games?

Not this, but Karsh isn't that bad for it. And you need just for it (shadow of the wolf give additional strike) tbc. Well, i won 3 out of 4 games this week with my deck (the last game was won by deck based on Karsh with form of mist and additional strikes, it lacked disarms, but i'm sure they would fit in).