card ideas: cel pro (a little love for the !gangrel)

alek wrote:

Fast return:
I can't see what pro effect is in inferior version. I would rather do this:
cel pro: maneuver and once this round this vampire may burn one blood to make his hand strikes aggravated.
Superior is nice

Protean is strongly associated to maneuvering, ever since Jyhad.

[/quote] Sudden Entrance: I hate the concept. It's anathor card that further blurs meaning of disciplines which is very bad. What does celerity and protean have to do with intecept and votes ?![/quote]

Both Protean and Celerity have multiple intercept cards. If you are fast and can change your form, you can suddenly appear where you could not be expected. That means you could interrupt someone's attempt to be sneaky, or interrupt someone's political machinations, in a way they would be unable to plan for.

Ohlmann wrote:

The inferior level of Sudden Entrance is way off for me. It is better than read the wind on discipline that does not give intercept or wake.

Do you have a plan to give CEL / PRO a specific role ? The card seem a little bit random in this regard.

It's not better than Read the Winds. The inferior (which does not require a tapped vampire) and superior of RtW work together to make it stronger than Sudden Entrance would be. But maybe SE should cost a blood, in which case the superior would have to be much stronger.

Both Protean and Celerity ARE intercept disciplines already. The 'story' idea was that being fast and being able to change your form would let you appear suddenly to interrupt other minions' doings. The 'game' idea is that one of the things the city !Gangrel severely lack is defense.

Well, the inferior IS superior to inf read the wind by quite a lot. It's an untap at +1 intercept for 0 to cry out loud

And, not, neither Protean nor Celerity are intercept discipline already, or not more than Mysterceria. I agree that Protean is maneuver and press heavy, and so do Celerity, but not blocky by a long mile

alek wrote:

Sudden Entrance: I hate the concept. It's anathor card that further blurs meaning of disciplines which is very bad. What does celerity and protean have to do with intecept and votes ?!

The Mole, Quicken Sight, Rooftop Shadow, Savannah Runner, Ears of the Hare, Eyes of the Beast, Sonar, Loki's Gift, Scalpel Tongue.

Ps, have just 2 intercept cards, have 4 and have 3.

Lech wrote:

alek wrote:

Sudden Entrance: I hate the concept. It's anathor card that further blurs meaning of disciplines which is very bad. What does celerity and protean have to do with intecept and votes ?!

The Mole, Quicken Sight, Rooftop Shadow, Savannah Runner, Ears of the Hare, Eyes of the Beast, Sonar, Loki's Gift, Scalpel Tongue.

Both Scalpel Tongue and Quicken sight are dual discipline with a block and vote disc, so you can left them out.

The let 2 intercept card to Celerity and 2 for Protean, plus some bad outferior and anarch card that require another trait. Both with significant drawback, the celerity one being the worst (alway costing a blood). As a comparison, Mysterceria have 2 intercept card too. So the argument of being not in discipline is pretty good for intercept, and somewhat acceptable for vote (even if a bit weaker, I admit).

Also, the intercept card, at inferior, does both level of Sense the savage way, without superior discipline, without the restriction. I know dual disc should be more powerful, but having such an effect on two non-intercept discipline at inferior is more than a bit strange.

Ohlmann wrote:

Lech wrote:

alek wrote:

Sudden Entrance: I hate the concept. It's anathor card that further blurs meaning of disciplines which is very bad. What does celerity and protean have to do with intecept and votes ?!

The Mole, Quicken Sight, Rooftop Shadow, Savannah Runner, Ears of the Hare, Eyes of the Beast, Sonar, Loki's Gift, Scalpel Tongue.

Both Scalpel Tongue and Quicken sight are dual discipline with a block and vote disc, so you can left them out.

Yeah. Quicken Sight requires (the main intercept discipline) and Scalpel Tongue requires (the main voting discipline).

Plus, one could argue that cards like Rooftop Shadow, Eyes of the Beast, Sonar were breaking the "color wheel" to begin with.

Regarding Mytherceria, I don't really consider it an "intercept discipline." It has Aura Absorption and a difficult-to-use Steal the Mind. It isn't much more of an "intercept discipline" than Necromancy is, with Spectral Divination, Divine Sign (cornercase), Eyes of the Dead (cornercase), Friend of Mine (anarch), and Masquer (expensive).

Plus, if you're going to compare disciplines and what they "are", you should also factor in how many cards are available. Mytherceria might only have "2" intercept cards, but it only has about half the number of library cards as a standard discipline like Protean or Animalism.