Card idea: Dirty Fighting

20 Jan 2012 12:21 #21274 by Ankha

Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

jAvel wrote:
I'd chage text a bit. Something like: "This card cost 1 less blood for each superior [CEL], [OBF], [PRO] this vampire has."

No. The card is good when played for free, otherwise the substitutes (Shadow Feint, Claws of the Dead) are better.

Currently, only 32 (including 2 advanced vampires that count twice) vampires can play it for free, starting with Wren (4 cap).

With your suggestion, only 13 of them could play it for three, starting with Darrell
Boyce (6 cap)

Prince of Paris, France

Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Ankha
Topic Author
Offline
Inconnu

20 Jan 2012 12:28 - 20 Jan 2012 12:29 #21275 by Ankha

Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

Ashur wrote:
I am not very fond of this type of very tailormade magicbullet-type of boost cards for certain clans. I prefer if !Gan got cards like Assamites got Selective Silence, Loss and Web of Knives.

Huh? Loss is precisely a "tailormade magicbullet-type of boost cards for certain clans". Maybe a little less magical (2 effects only), but much more efficient.

Ashur wrote:
Also, it has a kind of long and complex card text. Cards like this and Keystone Kine doesn´t really help the already tough learning curve this game has.

Beginners have plenty of cards to learn from (Conditioning, Lost in Crowds). This card isn't supposed to figure in the V:tES for dummies handbook.

Prince of Paris, France

Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Last edit: 20 Jan 2012 12:29 by Ankha.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Ankha
Topic Author
Offline
Inconnu

20 Jan 2012 16:37 #21294 by Drain

Replied by Drain on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

It using the multi-discipline mechanic poached from the Anarchs somehow doesn't strike me as right. I too wonder if jAvel might not have a point... perhaps making it cost a base of 2 blood and reducing it for every Superior?

All in all, I can appreciate the idea and the execution as well but I simply don't think that enabling combat (the weakest strategy) is the answer to the !Gangrel's woes.

Drain

The following user(s) said Thank You: Molloy, jamesatzephyr

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Drain
Offline
Elder

20 Jan 2012 18:15 #21302 by DeathInABottle

Replied by DeathInABottle on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

Ashur wrote:
Also, it has a kind of long and complex card text. Cards like this and Keystone Kine doesn´t really help the already tough learning curve this game has.

I really like the Keystone Kine template, though I think that it would be better used in cases where a combination of disciplines is rare (cel obf nec) than common, as here. And I think that it would actually be easier to learn how KK works if there were other cards that worked the same way, since it would give players more opportunities to see the template.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

DeathInABottle
Offline
Methuselah

20 Jan 2012 21:18 - 20 Jan 2012 21:31 #21311 by jamesatzephyr

Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

Like Drain, I really like the idea, but I think this misses the mark slightly.

It gives them a pretty decent combat card. but only in areas they're already doing stuff anyway. The default position is that it's still going to be a strike for 1 aggravated damage, even if it beats dodge. Beating First Strike is nice in that it saves you from taking hands (or whatever) - but it does seem to edge them yet further into "I can trump other combat, but that's not where my weakness was" territory.

I would be much more interested in seeing something that went, say:

[pro] Something bland, easy to cycle, but maybe there's a blood cost, or it's not quite as flexible. Say, +1 stealth on actions to enter combat or commit diablerie.
[obf]+[pro] Something combat-y. Maybe a perma-benefit - you can still stack a few an cycle them at [pro], or maybe use them at [OBF]+[PRO] when you don't need this benefit anymore.
[OBF]+[PRO] Something not combat-y.

Or reverse the second and third level. So somewhere between Deep Song and Elemental Stoicism. (ES also uses the three level, two discipline approach.)

Doing something with [pro]+[cel] would also be a fairly obvious option.

Last edit: 20 Jan 2012 21:31 by jamesatzephyr.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

jamesatzephyr
Offline
Antediluvian

20 Jan 2012 22:03 #21318 by Molloy

Replied by Molloy on topic Re: Card idea: Dirty Fighting

Drain wrote:
It using the multi-discipline mechanic poached from the Anarchs somehow doesn't strike me as right.
...

All in all, I can appreciate the idea and the execution as well but I simply don't think that enabling combat (the weakest strategy) is the answer to the !Gangrel's woes.
Drain

I very much agree.