2 Anarch Cards

Miasmat wrote:

brandonsantacruz wrote:

...or place this card on a ready non-anarch vampire to make them an Anarch.

Should probably require the target to be controlled by you, or else it'd be mean to make other players' vampires anarch without their consent.

"Suck it, Arika!"

Good catch on the "you control" part.

@Mike
I'd actually prefer if it allowed titled vampires to go anarch without the hassle of crummy Anarch Succession. Think of the Primogen and Bishops ;(

Like getting 2 votes as an action ? As constant revolution ? As powerbase:la? Not to mention anarch three way cards, revo council and other strong anarch cards?

brandonsantacruz wrote:

Like what? I mean they have some, but really?

Like all the three way, a lot of wich are quite nice for inferior disc, chameleon, the anarch specifics vote, revolutionary council, etc...

It is a strong package, much stronger than the sabbat one, or even the black hand one, and arguably also more powerful than the camarilla depending on the power you accord to two card (2nd trad and Parity Shift).

I do believe that Anarch need strong card to be worth it because it's hard to be anarch. But if you weaken the difficulty, anarch may easily became too strong.

Ohlmann wrote:

Well, then, we should also remove the anarch requirement from three-way discipline.

still don't get your point.why the anarch requirement in 3 way cards should be removed?

Ohlmann wrote:

I mean, Anarch have so much shiny toy because it's hard to be anarch. Removing this by creating unber powerful way to be anarch mean the sect should be lowered to sabbat or laibon level. I.E. not much.

Yup, they have shiny toys, but improving this 2 cards won't be a complete revolution to anarch decks, just would make the cards playable without breaking game balance. Why it wouldn't break game balance? Even if these proposed cards became legal for play, still wouldn't replace Seattle commite/Twilight campment, just because in a midcap/ weenie anarch deck you just need 2 to 3 copies of the commite or the campment (maybe mixed) to "convert" every vampire (and i'm not considering anarch convert).
This change just would make the cards "playable" because the current texts makes these cards wallpaper (mildly useful on early game, thrash-unplayable on late game).

It's true that becoming BH is kinda harder, but: why not improving the BH convertion too??

I'm totally pro-unwallpaperize cards (without breaking game balance), i think these cards need to leave the wall, maybe some BH "convertion" cards too.

Lech wrote:

Like getting 2 votes as an action ? As constant revolution ? As powerbase:la? Not to mention anarch three way cards, revo council and other strong anarch cards?

Baron cards: vote support for a sub-sect that has zero unmerged vampires with votes (and only two merged barons for that matter). Burnable as a vote. Highest title of the sect has two votes.

Constant Revolution: You mean that card weenie auspex walls use to further annoy the table? They can't afford the card slots (in their library) to make a significant number of anarchs.

Powerbase: LA: It can be useful if you have react-y anarchs, otherwise it is a Barrens, but worse.

Revolutionary Council: If you have a ton of anarchs, at least one baron, and can pass the vote, sure.

Anarch three-ways: Of the 22 I count about 5 that I would consider solid cards usable in multiples outside of specialized decks. You still have to be anarch to use it. When I consider playing these in decks I usually go from pulling cards to putting them away around the time I ask myself "Is this better than having a superior discipline?" The more diversified disciplines get in their abilities, the harder it is to answer in the affirmative.

I still wouldn't play these cards, and Black Hand needs to be hard to get into, its a keyword, not a sect.