Card Idea: Exoskeleton

direwolf wrote:

How about:

Exoskeleton

2
Only usable before range is determined.
Put this card on this vampire with 3 bone counters. This vampire may burn a bone counter to reduce the damage from a single source to 0. Burn this card when it has 0 counters. A vampire may only have one Exoskeleton.
As above, with 5 bone counters.

Way too strong. Even if you restrict the damage prevention to combat sources only, in order to remove the ability to use this to break Daring the Dawn, this card is easily as good as any number of Fortitude damage prevention cards. That's pretty far outside Vicissitude's bailiwick as a toolbox discipline that sacrifices individually powerful cards for flexibility.

Kushiel wrote:

Way too strong. Even if you restrict the damage prevention to combat sources only, in order to remove the ability to use this to break Daring the Dawn, this card is easily as good as any number of Fortitude damage prevention cards. That's pretty far outside Vicissitude's bailiwick as a toolbox discipline that sacrifices individually powerful cards for flexibility.

I don't know how strong it is - remember that it costs 2 blood! There aren't a lot of cards in this game that cost 2 blood and still get used regularly. I suppose that it feels a little strong to me right now. I'd be tempted to leave the text as is, but make it a action (at +1 stealth) to put the card on a minion. Or I would keep it as a combat card and allow the tokens to be removed to prevent 1 damage each.

brettscho wrote:

I don't know how strong it is - remember that it costs 2 blood! There aren't a lot of cards in this game that cost 2 blood and still get used regularly.

It costs two blood but nets you at least three, and that amount scales upward from there, depending on what other people at the table are playing. There's a reason that you don't see other examples of cards like that being played, because they'd get killed in playtest, if they even made it that far.

Additionally, remember that there's a very good Tzimisce who reduces the cost of Vicissitude cards as well as a Tzim clan card which does the same (which they're very well-suited to defending).

brettscho wrote:

I suppose that it feels a little strong to me right now. I'd be tempted to leave the text as is, but make it a action (at +1 stealth) to put the card on a minion. Or I would keep it as a combat card and allow the tokens to be removed to prevent 1 damage each.

Agreed. In addition to being better than most Foritude damage prevention cards in terms of raw amounts of damage prevented, one of the reasons it's so overpowered in this form is that its opportunity cost for being played is very low, unlike other damage prevention cards. Making it an action would reduce that significantly, though it doesn't answer the question of why Vicissitude should have powerful damage prevention in the first place.

Kushiel wrote:

it doesn't answer the question of why Vicissitude should have powerful damage prevention in the first place.

Pretty much any circumstance can be backed up with creative storytelling. In this case, a vampire with Viscissitude might go as far as to graft bone into her skin, thereby creating an exoskeleton.

As far as game balance, it should read "in combat." Maybe "once per round."

You want to nerf it further? It could read "this vampire burns a blood and a bone counter to..."

Another option is to make it multi-discipline. having the first text for and the second text for (or if you are feeling stingy.)

direwolf wrote:

Pretty much any circumstance can be backed up with creative storytelling. In this case, a vampire with Viscissitude might go as far as to graft bone into her skin, thereby creating an exoskeleton.

Sorry if I was unclear. I was talking about the fact that there hasn't been a compelling case advanced for the mechanical reason to give Vicissitude a damage prevention option that rivals the options found in Fortitude. Maddog's only proffered reason seemed to be that Vicissitude doesn't have good damage prevention options, and therefore it should, which…well, by that reasoning every other discipline needs the same kinds of cards.

Kushiel wrote:

Sorry if I was unclear. I was talking about the fact that there hasn't been a compelling case advanced for the mechanical reason to give Vicissitude a damage prevention option that rivals the options found in Fortitude.

While the damage prevention element isn't explicitly covered, the basic idea that maddog appears to be working from is in vekn.net/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas/73295-card-idea-zulo-warform - Vicissitude has good combat options, but they're very narrow, and wouldn't it be nice if Vicissitude had some other options that players could use, and hey lore-wise that would match up with Vicissitude being quite fearsome in the WoD too.


(Personally, I was thinking of grafting on an extra arm and getting additional strikes...)