New expansion and card ideas

Brum wrote:

My input in this:
No change in mechanics.
No nerfing or wallpapering existing cards.
New group 6 Sabbat Vampires, specially Montano (Camarilla Lasombra Inner Circle?)
whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Montano

If people do think something needs to change, the Alastor / Trophy mechanic needs improvement (maybe in a third release?).

Tiago Brum

We need more group 5 sabbat vampires first before group 6, there is currently only two group 5 sabbat vampires per clan (1 for !nos), there should be at least 6 more for each clan which is quite nice amount for an expansion (comparable to black hand in size)

4. Format
So far, new expansions have followed the tried and tested format (boosters, starter packs of a certain size). I think a serious discussion should be had about this now though. There are so many formats out there now (Living Card Game etc.), and we have complete freedom to structure new expansions as we like. We could have expansions of 3 new cards every 3 months, e.g. only vampires or only non-vampires etc. And how often should new editions come out?

What I would love to see is an expansion of roughly 20-30 cards or so, but published in short intervals. These cards would be then distributed amongst princes (or other organizers) as promo cards, with "unofficial VEKN publishment" tag or something in the bottom edge of the card. With distributing I mean selling with prices to cover printing and posting.

We have two major advantages regargind this approach: quality of printing and focus on game driven communities. The former should be clear. With some monetary input the print quality of cards would easily reach professional standards, and increase the popularity of the set; and thus, the game itself. The expenses need investments, obviously, and this is quiet a problem, but if people pay their share of the expenses for the packs, a part of the dilemma is solved.

The latter is rather important too. To have something to wait for is very important to a CCG audience, and new promo cards would obviously fill that vacuum. It also encourages people to engage in social gaming, rather than forming collections of their own. The collectibility is thus back in the game. It also inspires tournament scenes, which is also a very important thing in maintaining gaming. It also improves chances of people getting hooked again the game from the start. Beginners would gain some goals to strive for.

Obviously this approach would require much prince activity on the first glance. This is not the idea, however, but the packs should be delivered to anyone willing to contribute - and thus, the 'buying' aspect comes into play. An option for princes to gather stacks of these promos for tournament play or other activities is maintained easily, but those without a tournament group or something should have an option to 'buy' those packs too.

Think about it. I don't think it's a bad idea. Obviously we need someone to take care of the printing and such, and to have some money to invest in this. I'll leave it to those people (if there are any) to judge if they should be paid for their endeavour (as in, the price of a promo pack would extend over the print and post expenses) or not.

Ideas? I think it's a good idea. Quiet problematic to pull off, though. But possible.

Hi again, sorry for the delay in getting back on your feedback (on holiday without internet)

@Surreal and Mael: I probably agree with you re following existing themes and no new mechanisms, at least for now

@Ankha: Re Bahari, it just seems obvious that there was going to be more to this mechanism, would be good to see this expanded.
Re my card suggestions, I dont agree that they change the prey/predator relationship. You can still only bleed your prey and be bled by your predator. However, it gives you the change (effective with one turn delay) to gain VPs from ousting someone else than your prey.

@Brum and Klaital: Agree regarding G5 and G6. Generally I think its a good idea to look at the areas that need to be improved/expanded, such as crypt groups.

@Krause: very interesting post. I agree re community driven and not for profit development of cards. Im not sure regarding the distribution method you suggest, i.e. via princes. Direct sale would also be good I think.
One thing thats important though is funding. We need to find some mechanism for this, e.g. players prepaying for cards and using the amounts received to pay for printing. Otherwise it would be too big an investment/risk.
As for cost of cards, it should be fairly easy to get a quote from a publisher for production and shipping. As we do not need to make a profit, I would hope that the price per card would be reasonable (i.e. about the same as it is now...)

I have updated the list based on your input (now in ordered format) and inserted your comments:

Framework for new edition/new cards

1. Theme for expansion? e.g. develop WoD background?

-- follow existing themes

2. New game mechanics?

-- not for now

3. New cards: crypt and library - any areas that need additions/improvement? any revisions required?

-- no revisions. More G5 Sabbat vampires, more G6 vampires, expand research area mechanism, improve trophy mechanism, e.g. expand Bahari mechanism

4. Format and practical stuff

-- size of expansion(20-30?), frequency of publication, production, funding (prepaid by players?), distribution (via princes/direct sale?), status of new cards (promo? unofficial/official?), price, rights to publish new cards.


Hopefully community input (such as this thread) will be used by VEKN when developing new cards...

Hi all,

Revisions and loose ends
G5 Sabbat is a loose end, but I'll get into that below.
The research area needs at least 2 more cards, I'd say. Without getting too much into solution mode, I'd think a vampire who could let you use a discard phase action to move a card from your hand to the research area would be nifty, as would an effect that let you move the top X cards from your deck to research area for a certain effect.
If the rules team wanted to revise any text on cards (say, Villein only targeting a vamp with 2+ blood), here's the place to do it. New text-boxes could then be easily slipped over the old cards in a sleeve, with minimal fuss and effort. Otherwise, steer clear of reprints (i.e., 'tourney-legal proxies').


New game mechanics
None, except for potential 'implicit win conditions' as mentioned in earlier posts.


WoD background
The background could simply be 'The Sabbat', but if a tighter focus is needed then one of the Sabbat Civil Warss or a 'by Night' books could be used as a starting point.
As it's the Sabbat we're talking about here, I'd love to see some cards that'd provide them with some more bruisey-burny options. We've had a focus on the Black Hand, why not open up the broader sect with Templars and Inquisitors? A card providing extra tech for Templar-keyworded Sabbat may open up some interesting combat-themed options (Trophies played as trifles? cancel strike:combat ends? extra bleed or hand size?), while Inquisitors could gain anti-Infernal specials, or new, more interesting burnination abilities.

Re: the Bahari, if this was intended to play up the growing thread of Infernalism in VTES, this'd fit nicely in with the theme mentioned above. Providing 'Bahari value-add' text to a few of the infernal Sabbat from Montreal by Night would be a nice touch, for example.


Format
A 30 card set would be do-able, but I'd love a 60-card set to beef it up to true mini-expansion levels. While it's doubtful we'd ever look at making 'virtual starters' for such a set, the key four clans that would nicely define a Templar / Inquisitor theme would be !Tremere, !Nosferatu, !Gangrel and !Toreador (coincidentally, these four haven't seen starters for years...).

cheers

Disco Stu
Prince of Melbourne, Australia