file Timeouting as increasing trend

09 May 2012 10:29 #29787 by vtesocrates

Ankha wrote:

vtesocrates wrote: Timeouts are bad things

Why? You give no argument.


Because then you don't get sufficient game wins and VPs to make the final and win the tournament obviously. I didn't think it needed to be said.

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09 May 2012 11:25 #29793 by Ankha

vtesocrates wrote:

Ankha wrote:

vtesocrates wrote: Timeouts are bad things

Why? You give no argument.


Because then you don't get sufficient game wins and VPs to make the final and win the tournament obviously. I didn't think it needed to be said.


If there are more and more timeouts (which is the starting assumption of this thread), then it won't change anything for accessing the final because most tables will timeout (and players will score less points). The final threshold will be lower (and as much as hard to attain than today).

If there are no more timeouts than before, this topic is moot.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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09 May 2012 11:40 #29794 by Lemminkäinen

Ankha wrote:

vtesocrates wrote:

Ankha wrote: Nohing personal, but you as well as other people seem to think that a timeout is a bad thing (since you state that if they were playing better, games wouldn't time out). Why?

Many tables with excellent players will time out because they neutralize each other. The best player will try to maximize his points anyway.


Timeouts are bad things

Why? You give no argument.

Timeouts results in unfulfilling games. I like to play games to the end but a timeout just cuts the game short and leaves doubt as to how it would've played out had it reached it's conclusion. A bit like watching a movie three fourths of the way through or reading a book and stopping before the end.

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09 May 2012 11:47 - 09 May 2012 11:47 #29795 by Ankha

Lemminkäinen wrote:

Ankha wrote:

vtesocrates wrote:

Ankha wrote: Nohing personal, but you as well as other people seem to think that a timeout is a bad thing (since you state that if they were playing better, games wouldn't time out). Why?

Many tables with excellent players will time out because they neutralize each other. The best player will try to maximize his points anyway.


Timeouts are bad things

Why? You give no argument.

Timeouts results in unfulfilling games. I like to play games to the end but a timeout just cuts the game short and leaves doubt as to how it would've played out had it reached it's conclusion. A bit like watching a movie three fourths of the way through or reading a book and stopping before the end.


There were an experiment in France with a tournament with no time-limit during the final. It lasted something like 4 hours and a half. I'm not sure it's a better experience.

Are you sure the trouble is a timeout? Wouldn't it be the fact that the game doesn't end fast enough (which is slightly different, thus my remark about the almost never-ending final above)?

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 09 May 2012 11:47 by Ankha.

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09 May 2012 12:28 #29801 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple

KevinM wrote: I think that the dearth of Sudden Reversal, more than any other factor, has allowed decks that rely on Villein to become very powerful.

But what can be done? Not playing Villein in favor of Sudden Reversal, in order to stop others' Villein'ing means that you yourself don't get the power of Villein. Oh, what a devil's choice!


Now, we're on the same page, brother. There is plenty of action denial (wall decks) these days. But not much Master denial. But it makes a kind of twisted sense.

Part of it is rampant M-MPA - if you don't have a 1:1 correspondence between your cancellation and their blood conversion, there's no reason to pack cancellation. Library recursion compounds that problem, you don't even permanently strip the resource.

I've experimented with Bleeding the Vine, but even a hanging "wash" effect is insufficient every time I get next to any M-MPA deck, running 50% Masters.

Some is, as you say, opportunity cost of not even having that in-turn Master Phase, which might be not just your own Villein, but something deck-enabling.

And I expect some is the current vogue of 70ish card decks - Enablers remain but Suddens get trimmed as the deck shrinks in overall size.
The following user(s) said Thank You: KevinM

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09 May 2012 12:34 #29804 by Chaitan
The biggest timesink is the players who go to any length to improve odds.

Each phase must absolutely be carefully considered to be really over before moving to the next phase. Cards drawn from Heart of Nizchetus, Dreams of the Sphinx, Tablets and similar must be carefully considered one-by-one before finally finalizing. Each methuselah's ash heap must be scrutinized before any moderate to major decision can be made. Diplomacy is oh-so-important as well since you have a chance to escape any danger if you just manage to find the correct words to say - even if you have to lie. The threat of a timeout does not affect these players because speeding things up means they can make a critical mistake and they know a mistake can cost them the game.

In tournaments, most people turn into this obnoxious creature. :)

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