file Timeouting as increasing trend

09 May 2012 13:31 #29807 by vtesocrates

Chaitan wrote: The biggest timesink is the players who go to any length to improve odds.

Each phase must absolutely be carefully considered to be really over before moving to the next phase. Cards drawn from Heart of Nizchetus, Dreams of the Sphinx, Tablets and similar must be carefully considered one-by-one before finally finalizing. Each methuselah's ash heap must be scrutinized before any moderate to major decision can be made. Diplomacy is oh-so-important as well since you have a chance to escape any danger if you just manage to find the correct words to say - even if you have to lie. The threat of a timeout does not affect these players because speeding things up means they can make a critical mistake and they know a mistake can cost them the game.

In tournaments, most people turn into this obnoxious creature. :)


Yes, some players play like this and some also want to discuss every card played. In my opinion this is not good play but rather a substitute for good play. The clock is your enemy as much as any player at the table. Quick and accurate play will always triumph.
The following user(s) said Thank You: alf

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09 May 2012 14:16 - 09 May 2012 14:18 #29809 by Squidalot

Boris The Blade wrote:

Squidalot wrote: The game wasn't designed to time out it was designed for people to die!

The game wasn't designed with a time limit.


or a card limit but both the first tournament WOTC rules had both time and card limits in place and it seems like a reasonable assumption that those guys were close enough to Ricky G to make some none arbitrary rules.

Anyway as my great friend vtesocrates says time is your enemy so play the game
Last edit: 09 May 2012 14:18 by Squidalot.

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09 May 2012 19:36 #29836 by KevinM

Ankha wrote:

KevinM wrote: If players and decks are better, and players have a better knowledge and awareness of the game, they should be PLAYING BETTER and not letting games time out.

Nothing personal, but you as well as other people seem to think that a timeout is a bad thing (since you state that if they were playing better, games wouldn't time out). Why?

Let me be more clear: Timeouts where the Game Win is lost, and nothing is gained by the table participants, is a bad thing. Sure, there are some scenarios where a timeout is a good thing.

Ankha wrote: Many tables with excellent players will time out because they neutralize each other.

If players are playing to "neutralize each other" and they aren't predator/prey, then they are, generally, bad players, or less-good than they could be.

Ankha wrote: The best player will try to maximize his points anyway.

Then tables shouldn't be timing out "as much as they are", should they? :)

Certainly, Darby is correct, in that the metagame has shifted so that Villein is a (the?) prime reason for timeouts nowadays. But that's no reason for mentally-alert, psychologically-aware good players to lose focus from their prey.

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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09 May 2012 19:42 #29837 by KevinM

Ankha wrote: If there are more and more timeouts (which is the starting assumption of this thread), then it won't change anything for accessing the final because most tables will timeout (and players will score less points). The final threshold will be lower (and as much as hard to attain than today).

What actually would happen is: The final threshold for players who do not focus on VPs and GWs will be lower (and as much as hard for those players to attain than today).

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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09 May 2012 20:59 - 09 May 2012 21:01 #29844 by johannes

vtesocrates wrote: Yes, some players play like this and some also want to discuss every card played. In my opinion this is not good play but rather a substitute for good play. The clock is your enemy as much as any player at the table. Quick and accurate play will always triumph.


There are also players who are just painfully slow. Not because they want to discuss everything or because they ponder every possible option. They are naturally slow. If given the choice of who I let die on the table, those players are often the preferred ones for me, even if slightly less good in terms of actual game state.

One possible reason for the strongness of Villein and the (probably, not sure) increasing timeouts could also be the relative demise of Stealth&Bleed. A couple of cards (for example Eyes of Argus, Carlton, ..) have made S&B difficult , and those decks tend to avoid timeouts.
Last edit: 09 May 2012 21:01 by johannes.

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09 May 2012 21:28 #29849 by david.tatu
I used to take notes on game state but stopped a few years back. I am thinking of having a small dry-erase board with me. I would divided it up into sections for each player to keep track of things like:
Number of votes
Table actions available
Standing intercept
and maybe a few other things (stuff in ash heap when I have a way to get it).

Basically game state info that I find I have to keep asking about and stuff I don't want to have to ask about.
It would speed up my game by not having to keep asking and allow me to do a little more advanced planning.

David Tatu
V:EKN Scribe

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