file How I would re-launch V:TES. (audience participation is encouraged)

02 Mar 2016 20:18 - 02 Mar 2016 20:26 #75671 by GreyB
Filling out the 2nd poll, I had an idea about releasing sets.

- Anually release just clan starters with a well evaluated selection (from all existing cards) of cards. No boosters. All clans should always be available. (perhaps mix bloodlines with other clans in a starter like HTTB).
- Release 4 small flavour sets each year with up to 20 new card designs and up to 20 reprints from past flavour sets. No starters.

- Keep the starter release clean and void from sect specific cards.
- Expand on sect only in flavour sets, keep the flavour sets small and lean.
- Flavour sets don't need to be clan specific and should tempt new players to pick up a starter for another clan, because it contained a super card that works well for a clan they don't play yet (but isn't clan specific).
- When adding a new clan to the cardgame, start the year with a new starter for that clan and add 1 to 3 cards for that clan's strategy in each flavour set.

New players can pick up a starter of the clan that sparks their interest and be ready to play competitively. The quality of the starter needs to be good though, no strategy of filling it with wallpaper cards and sell the better cards in boosters (also containing a lot of wallpaper cards).

In the course of a few years all fun cards get reprinted often enough not to make a single card super rare (Ashur's, enkilcog etc) unless they where deemed either too powerful or too crap for a reprint during evaluation.

I feel a proper release strategy is important to keep VTES succesful and the old release strategy was too restrictive or sets too huge. I'd rather have small sets with good card than huge sets with mostly wallpaper.

**edit** I am describing a living card game aren't I?

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength
Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 20:26 by GreyB.
The following user(s) said Thank You: self biased, brettscho, 2wayspeaker, 1muflon1, VtES Kansas

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02 Mar 2016 20:25 #75672 by GreyB

2wayspeaker wrote: Pentex for everyone! I've seen pentex be contested for 8 turns. Not sure having several pentex simultaneously on the table is better than putting them out of play.


Sure! If 3 Pentex's are on the table, each contesting player pays 2 pool each turn to keep it on the table ;)

:garg: :VIS: :POT: :FOR: :flight: -1 Strength

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02 Mar 2016 22:58 #75681 by self biased

Ankha wrote: I agree on some points:

1) card layout should be redone entirely
Currently, the cards are hard to distinguish (similar colors), making it harder to recognize cards and learn the game.
The border are too thick, wasting space for card text and making the card look overburdened.
Clans suffers the same indistinguish-ness: considered !Malkavian and !Nosferatu for instance


Having a large green bar go up the side of all of the cards doesn't help either, i'm sure. Though I don't know what you mean by the Borders being too thick.

2) text should displayed differently. The bold / non bold usage for superior / inferior effects is a legacy of Jyhad. Text box should be simply be split by horizontal lines between effects. Bold would be reserved for requirements for instance


V:tes is basically a collection of unfortunate legacy issues, because if we change anything to make it clearer, it'll only make it confusing for veteran new players and hamper their learning the game! I'd also add "keywords" to the list of things that should be bold text.

3) votes should appear in a special area on the vampire card. I would keep the titles as they are though


I don't disagree in either point. I do think that it should be easier to tell that a title is unique (so i don't have to look up in the book because my mind is like a sieve) at a glance. I'd advocate pretty strongly to replace "Grundlesniffer has 2 votes (titled)" on independent vampires with a title. this would also save precious real estate in the tiny text box.

4) I'm not totally against merging clans and their antitribu counterpart, provided Camarilla, Sabbat, Independant and Laibon sect is clearly identified by a graphical, colored element (a wax seal of different colors for instance). This would reduce the number of different crypt layouts


I think it would be better if there was just an icon for it rather than the color of the wax splat. We've got four sects right now, but what if the design team wanted to add the Inconnu, or some other sect? An icon would be much clearer and easier to see from across the table.

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03 Mar 2016 00:09 #75683 by self biased

GreyB wrote: **edit** I am describing a living card game aren't I?


it's okay. part of the awful thing about V:tes is the unwieldy way it's been distributed over the years. the alternating base sets, with bloodlines and independents mixed in here and there...

That being said, i really like what you've outlined.

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03 Mar 2016 03:36 #75685 by VtES Kansas
Like GreyB and Brum, I had some discussion on this topic in the other thread.

First, the contesting mechanic should not be dropped. It correctly punishes a lack of originality and could ultimately lead to very large problems. Multiple Arika; Multiple Millicent Smith; Multiple Smiling Jack, I think that we can all agree that such a scenario would be crazy.

As for elimination of mechanics that had been mentioned, I am inclined to defer here as well. Honestly, when the Black Hand mechanic was introduced I did not make much use of it. However, I think that 3rd edition, Danse Macabre, and especially Sword of Caine really built on it and made it useful. I am not thinking that great things will come of Red List, Research Area, or Vulnerability, but I did not initially think that much would come of Black Hand either.

Although I might be in the minority, I did and continue to enjoy the Imbued. I realize of course that this is VAMPIRE the Eternal Struggle, but I would not be adverse to including wraiths, changelings, and/or werewolves as mini-expansions like the hunters were (given the survey results it is clear that this is a minority opinion) assuming that vampires are always the major focus of the game. Ultimately, should the Imbued be eliminated and never spoken of again, it would not break my heart. They provide an interesting twist, decks that were very quick to start, but generally ran out of steam in the mid game; generally good for a VP or two and a lot of table hate, but not a game win.

Back to the topic of the thread, I think it may be instructive to learn from Magic the Gathering. Keep a base set in print that is only reprints and use expansions to expand the game. The base set could even be rotated on a yearly basis so that new players constantly have exposure to even the most ancient of crypt cards. Also, old players do not have to accumulate new wall paper to obtain the most recent minions.

VtES has a particular challenge in that all vampires are eligible for tournament play, so the only other real possibility compared to a rotating base set would be a print on demand system for blood shadowed court, 10th, and new other similarly based sets for the accumulation of legacy vampires (Sabbat, Keepers of Tradition, or even Final Nights). New players will need eventual access to these minions.

Like GreyB, I detest the starters. Nothing is worse than putting starter only vampires in them. This essentially just acts to fuel the secondary market because I can either buy them from the secondary market or collect more wall paper.

GreyB also hits it right on the head:

I feel a proper release strategy is important to keep VTES succesful and the old release strategy was too restrictive or sets too huge. I'd rather have small sets with good card than huge sets with mostly wallpaper


Anyway, just some thoughts.
The following user(s) said Thank You: self biased, brettscho, 1muflon1

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03 Mar 2016 12:05 #75692 by Brum
I posted this elsewhere, so I'll copy it here, with a few extra notes:

First a big set like Jyhad or Third Edition with old cards, new cards. I would use the opportunity to streamline the rules (like dropping Triffle, Events, Priscus, etc..)
Start the game anew like in 1994, but allowing for your old Lost in Crowds or Governs to still work.
This goes i line with Vincent's threads of "cleaning up disciplines".
7 clans with X preconstructed decks (depending on marketing). Some Antitribu vampires in boosters (or LCG packs, or print on demand).
Preconstructed decks are important for new players.

Then continue from there with expansions, being careful on keeping the rules streamlined and the power curve steady. The first 2 years should be focused on getting new players, so we should not have funky new effects.

Organised play would have two formats:
-Legendary:old cards and new cards legal.
-Standard: only new cards (and their old copies) are legal.

From a certain point on, the main format should be Standard to boost sales.
As time goes by more cards from Legendary will be legal in Standard, while some never will, due to rules, balance and marketing (I'm looking at you Imbued).
And they can re-introduce certain concepts like Priscus, on the correct thematic expansions.

By choosing a limited set of cards, rewriting card texts and tweaking the main rules, I believe we can solve most of the issues with VtES.
And for 1 or 2 years we would still have 100% of the old flavor for the old players, with added toys.

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