file New Set?

15 Nov 2017 21:51 #84294 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic New Set?

Ankha wrote: You can burn a vampire using a Poker and some fancy Quietus cards :)

Or ANY kiasyd with an amaranth.....B)

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16 Nov 2017 00:51 #84295 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic New Set?

Ankha wrote: As elotar pointed out, Personal Involvment's art is weak. Abstract things can (should?) be represented by abstract art.
Enkil Cog's art should have been more abstract in my opinion.


Without more information, though, it's difficult to know whether the issue is that the artist involved did something poor/annoying/uninspired/dull/whatever, or whether the commission they were given was fairly specific but dull. There are definitely artists who've produced some great card art, but who've also produced some card art where I think it's boring as hell - maybe they had a really free hand and created a bit of a dud, or maybe they created exactly what WotC/WW/LSJ/whoever told them to draw in a lot of detail.

Plus, there are also a few cases where we know a piece of card art was drummed up at the last minute to meet a deadline because something went wrong (e.g. an artist fell ill). And I wouldn't be particularly surprised if at some points in the past, artists have said "I can't meet that deadline for a specific commission right now, but I drew this last year in my spare time if you're interested..."

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16 Nov 2017 10:27 - 16 Nov 2017 10:37 #84296 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic New Set?

Kraus wrote: I'd love to have a splash of more abstraction in the art for the future. The latest art style has been beautiful in a comprehensible and worldly way, but I do kind of miss the abstraction of Jyhad era cards. It really, really fits many Master cards (not locations obvi).

Sudden Reversal and Direct Intervention are great with their abstract art, and I'd love to see this more. Enkil Cog is a very good example of this. I would've loved a bit more abstraction in the art to be sure, even though it's technically fine.


But I don't see a particular need for fully abstract art in either DI or sudden reversal. Both do depict a specific quantifiable thing: The methuselah (you) acting directly in the matter. Not necessarily physically, but still. In my opinion DI art should be similar to art in Ancient influence. Something is happening, and its the ancient vampire doing it, but exactly how is up for interpretation. In DI's case it could depict an agent for the other methuselah being delayed by some unforeseen event or getting ambushed by some gang or car breaking down or whatever (all of these are being caused by the opposing methuselah ofc). Just to give few ideas. A vague form in a fog with a red splash doesn't satisfy me.

I just think that the art in DI is a cheap way to achieve the minimum criteria required of a card art, and the red splash is more of a cheap cop-out since this is a vampire game. 'O, its a vampire game so I add this red splash'. And I do feel DI art doesn't satisfy the criteria.

@Lönkka: Card art doesn't have to be photorealistic to instill imagination. But it should depict SOMEthing.

I think the original art of Enkil Cog is a good example of what I want from a card. Its got its own specific art style yet depicts an actual event: A methuselah is mentally influencing(the eyes) a public figure who is speaking to the masses. I don't even know what Enkil Cog means in the lore, but the card itself makes sense well enough.

"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
Last edit: 16 Nov 2017 10:37 by Bloodartist.

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16 Nov 2017 10:56 - 16 Nov 2017 10:58 #84297 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic New Set?

Bloodartist wrote: I think the original art of Enkil Cog is a good example of what I want from a card. Its got its own specific art style yet depicts an actual event: A methuselah is mentally influencing(the eyes) a public figure who is speaking to the masses. I don't even know what Enkil Cog means in the lore, but the card itself makes sense well enough.

The relation between a card that allows a 10+ cap vampire to act out of your turn and a "public figure who is speaking to the masses" is very tenuous.
So, it could have depicted a squirrel eating a nut, and you would still have been satisfied?
I mean, when the subject is as vague (or unknown) as this, anything could represent it. After all, why couldn't a squirrel be "the" Enkil Cog? Or a red splash of color?

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 16 Nov 2017 10:58 by Ankha.

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16 Nov 2017 11:31 - 16 Nov 2017 11:34 #84298 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic New Set?

Ankha wrote:

Bloodartist wrote: The relation between a card that allows a 10+ cap vampire to act out of your turn and a "public figure who is speaking to the masses" is very tenuous.
So, it could have depicted a squirrel eating a nut, and you would still have been satisfied?
I mean, when the subject is as vague (or unknown) as this, anything could represent it. After all, why couldn't a squirrel be "the" Enkil Cog? Or a red splash of color?


I disagree. Its not a tenuous connection at all. It can just be one of MANY different things the image depicts and one was picked. You can use enkil cog to call a vote on a political card. Not seen often, but could be whats happening here. Its still a methuselah-level vampire (10 cap) that's doing stuff here, not a squirrel. Bleed depicts attacking another players influence (such as political clout), so +bleed makes sense also. The eyes are still depicting the methuselah player, the person speaking to the audience is probably the 10-cap. It all makes sense.

I admit that I don't know what the actual "enkil cog" is, but the image is depicting the card text well enough. Sometimes card titles in VTES are too obscure.

Saying that anything could represent this card seems like mentally giving up too easy. Just need to understand the context.


"Plenty of little men tried to put their swords through my heart. And there's plenty of little skeletons buried in the woods."
- Tormund Giantsbane, Game of Thrones
Last edit: 16 Nov 2017 11:34 by Bloodartist.

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16 Nov 2017 14:01 #84300 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic New Set?
Does anybody know anything about Enkil lore wise in V:TM? This was an Anne Rice character and I don't get why there is a VTES card referencing him. That said, apparently Enkil's role is to protect the first ever vampire from being destroyed (which is not Caine in Anne Rice's universe). That must by why the card lets one act on another's turn, sort of interrupting another's plans. I think the art could have reflected this better.

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